So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale • Hacker News Board

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#11

Post by winkelwagen » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 6:57 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

From what I understood is that not every Starbucks needs to be profitable. Some are insanely profitable, while others are just branding and marketing places that sell coffee. Of course there is a difference between not being profitable and bulking up insane losses each day, I think that is something Starbucks does well.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#12

Post by rexpop » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 6:58 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

Large capital reservoir to float downtimes, extraction of wealth from community in uptimes to fill that reservoir.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#13

Post by rbrbr » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:00 AM UTC

At halfway through the article it becomes clear that the writer has kids to take care of and his own job. That’s what should have been in the title to clarify the scope, and I would have saved the time reading this article. It’s obviously a much different challenge with those factors present. Without kinds and him/her taking care of the cafe instead it would have worked out likely. I mean think of it, people who have a full time job and children usually have little to no time for anything else.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#14

Post by endomatrix » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:01 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

I have a friend who runs a brewery. They distribute a ridiculous amount of their product into stores around the world and have won many awards, yet they make very little margin from all that.

He told me they make an overwhelming amount of money off of the tasting room attached to their physical brewery because the beer itself is effectively water in terms of cost so they make profit by not having to pay any middle men in the tasting room.

My suspicion is that in the coffee world, if you source and roast your own beans and serve them direct in a venue you own you get a similar effect. I think it must be essential to run the roastery yourself to make it work. That work goes well beyond what is required to just open a cafe and serve someone else’s coffee.

Starbucks has simply insane process automation, training, branding, marketing, custom drink labs pushing out new flavors every two weeks, complete control of their global supply chains.

It would be more accurate to ask: “How the F can anyone make any money when Starbucks is on every other street corner and has the advantages of scale they have.”

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#15

Post by SyneRyder » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:14 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

While I can't speak to Starbucks, a similar coffee chain in Australia is actually a property play. They don't just own their cafe, but also several of the adjacent stores as well, which they lease out to other retailers. Much of the value in the business actually comes from appreciation in property values.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#16

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

rexpop wrote: post #12

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

Large capital reservoir to float downtimes, extraction of wealth from community in uptimes to fill that reservoir.

[deleted]

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#17

Post by mamborambo » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

So much truth in this article. We closed down our hobby business, a dance studio, after 10 years of trying to make it work, and finally come to the realisation that we can do much more without the anchor weighing us down. The truth is a passion startup often defies rational analysis, almost like why people have children, it simply fills the part of them that fears regret.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#18

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:27 AM UTC

endomatrix wrote: post #14

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

I have a friend who runs a brewery. They distribute a ridiculous amount of their product into stores around the world and have won many awards, yet they make very little margin from all that. He told me they make an overwhelming amount of money off of the tasting room attached to their physical brewery because the beer itself is effectively water in terms of cost so they make profit by not having to pay any middle me…

> It would be more accurate to ask: “How the F can anyone make any money when Starbucks is on every other street corner and has the advantages of scale they have.”

Source and roast your own beans, don't overroast the beans, charge a premium over Starbucks for not producing crap coffee from overroasted beans. Starbucks does some impressive work with the candy flavors it adds to distract from their coffee, but...

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#19

Post by ozim » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:33 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

Small moms and pops coffee shops are not present on airports, in biggest city centers in best locations.

After you have best spots in city where a lot of people come add optimizations of supply chain or owning a supply chain.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#20

Post by ozim » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 7:34 AM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #15

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

While I can't speak to Starbucks, a similar coffee chain in Australia is actually a property play. They don't just own their cafe, but also several of the adjacent stores as well, which they lease out to other retailers. Much of the value in the business actually comes from appreciation in property values.

That is actually what McDonalds is doing, burgers are just addition.