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Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

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Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#11

Post by mikejb »

slivym wrote: post #9

This is just a sensationalist snippet from the long read from the New Yorker that was on hacker news yesterday. The engineer responsible was fired from Google for forming his own company and eventually went to Uber which was the cause of the massive lawsuit between the two, he's now close to unemployable. Since that incident 4 years ago it's pretty clear a lot has changed -but one thing that hasn't changed is Google'…

It has been reported that it was a constant struggle to get Urmson (the lead in Project Chauffeur) and Levandowski (who wanted to just launch) to work together because they had such a contradictory approach on safety. Urmson left in 2016, shortly before Chauffeur spawned into Waymo.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#12

Post by mikejb »

londons_explore wrote: post #10
mikejb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing the devils advocate here: There was (apparently) no physical contact between the cars, so one could just tell a different story about the type of accident, or just leave out that the Camry then pinwheeled into the median. (Reason for lying about it could be that they drove the car in autonomous mode on 'forbidden routes' and feared repercussions). Having said that - I doubt that's how things happened.

'pinwheeled into the median' sounds like loosing control... That only is likley to happen if someone hits someone else...

It doesn't sound like the cars collided. The original story [1] includes more details, but it definitely sounds like a collision was avoided, and that avoidance caused the spine injury and the Camry pinwheeling.

> The cars continued speeding down the freeway side by side. The Camry’s driver jerked his car onto the right shoulder. Then, apparently trying to avoid a guardrail, he veered to the left; the Camry pinwheeled across the freeway and into the median. Levandowski, who was acting as the safety driver, swerved hard to avoid colliding with the Camry, causing Taylor to injure his spine so severely that he eventually required multiple surgeries.

> The Prius regained control and turned a corner on the freeway, leaving the Camry behind.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#13

Post by oldgradstudent »

slivym wrote: post #9

This is just a sensationalist snippet from the long read from the New Yorker that was on hacker news yesterday. The engineer responsible was fired from Google for forming his own company and eventually went to Uber which was the cause of the massive lawsuit between the two, he's now close to unemployable. Since that incident 4 years ago it's pretty clear a lot has changed -but one thing that hasn't changed is Google'…

The crash was in 2011. Levandowski was fired in January 2016 only after he tried to recruit other employees.

It demonstrates very well how they prioritize safety vs. potential profit.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#14

Post by oldgradstudent »

mikejb wrote: post #6

Did Google pay off the Camry driver? If I was pushed into an accident by a car with company decals and a sensor suite on top [1], I'd definitely include this when reporting the accident. It's an incredible story, and I'm not sure whether I say that in it's literal or figurative meaning. (Note that the author of the article is Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer-price winning journalist - so it's not just a story posted by som…

What I understood from the article is that they left the scene without reporting it.

There was another incident they never reported. The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#15

Post by oldgradstudent »

TeeWEE wrote: post #5

This is the worst article i ever read. Its suggestive, and it point to 2014. Its just trying to get viewers.

It's better than the usual BS which is just repackaged PR coming from Waymo, Uber, and the other self-driving car promoters.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#16

Post by oldgradstudent »

skgoa wrote: post #7
Piskvorrr wrote: post #2

So, does that mean the "spotless safety record" meant "you can't find anything about our mistakes"? That doesn't sound creepy at all, nonono.

Everyone games the mandatory safety reporting. Mostly by doing testing under the radar and/or outside California. Google has taken that a step further by counting disengagements (meaning instances of the system failing and having to be overriden by the driver) only when the system would definitely have crashed.

> only when the system would definitely have crashed.

With no external oversight, no transparency, and a sketchy record of honest reporting.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#17

Post by mikejb »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #14
mikejb wrote: post #6

Did Google pay off the Camry driver? If I was pushed into an accident by a car with company decals and a sensor suite on top [1], I'd definitely include this when reporting the accident. It's an incredible story, and I'm not sure whether I say that in it's literal or figurative meaning. (Note that the author of the article is Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer-price winning journalist - so it's not just a story posted by som…

What I understood from the article is that they left the scene without reporting it. There was another incident they never reported. The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

> The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

I don't live in the US, so I don't know - but is that common? To me, it sounds like a significant accident, and I fail to understand why it wouldn't be reported.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#18

Post by sgc »

mikejb wrote: post #17
oldgradstudent wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understood from the article is that they left the scene without reporting it. There was another incident they never reported. The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

> The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report. I don't live in the US, so I don't know - but is that common? To me, it sounds like a significant accident, and I fail to understand why it wouldn't be reported.

The other driver was living in the US illegally, so he cut his losses to avoid the risk of deportation.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#19

Post by stevenwoo »

mikejb wrote: post #17
oldgradstudent wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understood from the article is that they left the scene without reporting it. There was another incident they never reported. The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report.

> The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report. I don't live in the US, so I don't know - but is that common? To me, it sounds like a significant accident, and I fail to understand why it wouldn't be reported.

The undocumented person may have not had insurance which would be one set of problems, or might have thought they would be at fault to some degree - being in an accident with someone injured would have involved police - both circumstances leading to contact with authorities could have led to deportation. It is not common to not have insurance but even in the case of people here legally, those without insurance commonly run from accidents because of the penalties for not having insurance. There is also the case of people with insurance but having a lot of driving penalty points (for speeding/running stop signs or lights) running or attempting to pay cash to avoid involving insurance because they have very expensive insurance due to driving history and do not want to get forced into an even higher insurance bracket.

Re: Google self-driving car crashes were covered up

#20

Post by mikejb »

stevenwoo wrote: post #19
mikejb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other driver was undocumented and he also preferred not to report. I don't live in the US, so I don't know - but is that common? To me, it sounds like a significant accident, and I fail to understand why it wouldn't be reported.

The undocumented person may have not had insurance which would be one set of problems, or might have thought they would be at fault to some degree - being in an accident with someone injured would have involved police - both circumstances leading to contact with authorities could have led to deportation. It is not common to not have insurance but even in the case of people here legally, those without insurance common…

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation!
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