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UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

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Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#11

Post by curiousity »

ForHackernews wrote: post #9
curiousity wrote: post #5

Defeatism is endemic to comment threads like this. I'm not sure what the purpose of these comments is, to be honest. If anything, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Let me offer an alternative point of view. Yes, the climate will be irreparably damaged. Yes, lots of humnas will suffer. These things seem to be unavoidable. The harm to both our planet and its citizens is happening as we speak. However, the scale to which…

> In my opinion, the most harmful thing you can do, is choosing to do nothing. I disagree. Millions of Americans and one of two major political parties are actively obstructing action to mitigate the impact of climate change. Doing nothing is better than doing things to actively hamper positive efforts.

I was orienting my post more towards the commenters who would rather comment "we are doomed" and "nothing will change", but you are absolutely right to point out obstructionism.

That said, I think my initial point still stands: Everyone needs to do what they can to both reduce their own impact, and to pressure governments and corporations to reduce theirs.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#12

Post by dragonwriter »

sys_64738 wrote: post #7

When the ice shelves in Greenland (40 foot sea level rise) and Antarctica (200 foot seas level rise) occur then I reckon it'll not be gradual but will be a sudden collapse. All within a very short space of months. The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alt…

> The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway.

Are you saying that the contribution of CO₂ levels to warming isn't established, or that the human role in increasing CO₂ levels isn't established? Because both of those are very well established.

> This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alter what was going to occur anyway.

This is only true in the sense where “explicit proof” is restricted to pure abstract domains like math and not applicable to any domain of material fact; to the extent that it is possible to “prove” anything about what would happen in counterfactual alternative conditions in the material universe, though, this has been proven.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#13

Post by sys_64738 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #12
sys_64738 wrote: post #7

When the ice shelves in Greenland (40 foot sea level rise) and Antarctica (200 foot seas level rise) occur then I reckon it'll not be gradual but will be a sudden collapse. All within a very short space of months. The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alt…

> The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. Are you saying that the contribution of CO₂ levels to warming isn't established, or that the human role in increasing CO₂ levels isn't established? Because both of those are very well established. > This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alter what was g…

> Are you saying that the contribution of CO₂ levels to warming isn't established, or that the human role in increasing CO₂ levels isn't established? Because both of those are very well established

Established by who and where is their funding coming from? Would you trust a survey that says "Windows is better than Linux" if it was funded by Microsoft? That's why where the funding comes from is key.

> is only true in the sense where “explicit proof” is restricted to pure abstract domains like math and not applicable to any domain of material fact; to the extent that it is possible to “prove” anything about what would happen in counterfactual alternative conditions in the material universe, though, this has been proven.

If you want hundreds of billions of dollars to be invested in something which hasn't got clear proof of value then that's simply not enough. You need to prove the Return On Investment, regardless of field. It all comes down to money.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#14

Post by r00fus »

ForHackernews wrote: post #9
curiousity wrote: post #5

Defeatism is endemic to comment threads like this. I'm not sure what the purpose of these comments is, to be honest. If anything, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Let me offer an alternative point of view. Yes, the climate will be irreparably damaged. Yes, lots of humnas will suffer. These things seem to be unavoidable. The harm to both our planet and its citizens is happening as we speak. However, the scale to which…

> In my opinion, the most harmful thing you can do, is choosing to do nothing. I disagree. Millions of Americans and one of two major political parties are actively obstructing action to mitigate the impact of climate change. Doing nothing is better than doing things to actively hamper positive efforts.

You can't control what others do. You can control what you (and perhaps your immediate family) do.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#15

Post by devinl »

sys_64738 wrote: post #7

When the ice shelves in Greenland (40 foot sea level rise) and Antarctica (200 foot seas level rise) occur then I reckon it'll not be gradual but will be a sudden collapse. All within a very short space of months. The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alt…

There is a huge monetary and PR incentive for the fossil fuel industry to publish research that proves "there is no issue" in regards to climate change. The energy industry is where the money is and your conclusions seems to be the exact opposite of this reality. While the field of climate science overall has gotten somewhat larger and more funding due to the strong evidence that climate change is going to cause problems for human life, any individual scientist who could prove climate change is not happening or won't affect human life in the foreseeable future has every incentive to do so and would get plenty of grant money.

This article has more written about monetary incentives of climate scientists: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/if-climate-scientist...

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#16

Post by sys_64738 »

na92 wrote: post #3

Clean energy is coming, but slowly. People are not going to get off their cars and hop on a bike. There is something you can do, today, to mitigate one of the biggest causes of climate change. Give up meat and dairy. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-red... Ironically the thing that is easiest to do is also the last one people want to do. I always thought that the fight against meat and dairy w…

Your Guardian article sounds like it's saying that population expansion is the real problem. Me not eating a hamburger isn't going to solve the population issue.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#17

Post by sys_64738 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #4
na92 wrote: post #3

Clean energy is coming, but slowly. People are not going to get off their cars and hop on a bike. There is something you can do, today, to mitigate one of the biggest causes of climate change. Give up meat and dairy. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-red... Ironically the thing that is easiest to do is also the last one people want to do. I always thought that the fight against meat and dairy w…

Why not just have people switch to poultry? White meat is healthier, anyway. People aren’t going to go vegetarian directly but surely there are half-measures that are a good first step.

Or we could switch directly to Soylent Green.

Re: UN Says Climate Genocide Is Coming. It’s Actually Worse Than That

#20

Post by stmfreak »

dragonwriter wrote: post #12
sys_64738 wrote: post #7

When the ice shelves in Greenland (40 foot sea level rise) and Antarctica (200 foot seas level rise) occur then I reckon it'll not be gradual but will be a sudden collapse. All within a very short space of months. The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alt…

> The real issue is that nobody has proven this wasn't going to occur anyway. Are you saying that the contribution of CO₂ levels to warming isn't established, or that the human role in increasing CO₂ levels isn't established? Because both of those are very well established. > This is always the downfall with climate science in that there is no explicit proof that anything man does to the planet would alter what was g…

CO2 follows warming if you look at the data too closely.

No one has proved that mankind’s contribution is material to the underlying trend, nor proved that warming will be as bad as claimed. So what if Greenland becomes green again?

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