Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mozilla Open Web App prototype

blog.mozilla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 48 posts

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#11

Post by toddmorey »

As Mozailla defines it, an open web app works in all modern browsers across the desktop and mobile. That idea thrills me as a user but gives me a sick feeling as a developer. Unless your app is fairly simple, that's a lot of platforms to target. What happens as the apps get more complex? I wonder how many companies will start with one or two platforms and then add support for more, once their code is tested and refined to enable "each browser to compete on app presentation, organization and management user interfaces."

I can't help but dream about an alternate universe where browser vendors standardized on one common, open source rendering engine and one javascript engine.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#12

Post by wesley »

jasonlotito wrote: post #9
DjDarkman wrote: post #6

I don't really know how is this better than launching a site and using a Paypal gateway integrated into the site. I don't really know how will this solve XSS and other security problems the web has. What problems are these app stores supposed to fix?

> What problems are these app stores supposed to fix? You've completely missed the point. The feature isn't an app store. It's browser based applications you can download and install on your computer, and run locally. The browser is merely the engine the runs the application. They'll probably remove the chrome, and instead of acting like a browser and a web page, it will merely be the application.

So, removal of a toolbar and a quick launch icon is all this is? Woweee if so.. (web apps can already run locally if programmed to do so)

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#13

Post by asnyder »

jasonlotito wrote: post #9
DjDarkman wrote: post #6

I don't really know how is this better than launching a site and using a Paypal gateway integrated into the site. I don't really know how will this solve XSS and other security problems the web has. What problems are these app stores supposed to fix?

> What problems are these app stores supposed to fix? You've completely missed the point. The feature isn't an app store. It's browser based applications you can download and install on your computer, and run locally. The browser is merely the engine the runs the application. They'll probably remove the chrome, and instead of acting like a browser and a web page, it will merely be the application.

It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps, we were moving away from that and making lots of progress and now all of a sudden many are eager to return back to local desktop, but this time running inside a browser, doesn't make any sense at all.

We should be moving forward, rather than going backwards.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#15

Post by jasonlotito »

wesley wrote: post #12
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What problems are these app stores supposed to fix? You've completely missed the point. The feature isn't an app store. It's browser based applications you can download and install on your computer, and run locally. The browser is merely the engine the runs the application. They'll probably remove the chrome, and instead of acting like a browser and a web page, it will merely be the application.

So, removal of a toolbar and a quick launch icon is all this is? Woweee if so.. (web apps can already run locally if programmed to do so)

No. You aren't even trying to read, or understand.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#17

Post by jasonlotito »

asnyder wrote: post #13
jasonlotito wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What problems are these app stores supposed to fix? You've completely missed the point. The feature isn't an app store. It's browser based applications you can download and install on your computer, and run locally. The browser is merely the engine the runs the application. They'll probably remove the chrome, and instead of acting like a browser and a web page, it will merely be the application.

It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps, we were moving away from that and making lots of progress and now all of a sudden many are eager to return back to local desktop, but this time running inside a browser, doesn't make any sense at all. We should be moving forward, rather than going backwards.

> It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps

Yes, there is. Being able to install a web app locally means several things immediately:

1. Local and remote storage of data beyond what traditional web apps can accomplish. 2. Snappier applications, since everything is stored locally. 3. You'll still be capable of being connected remotely. 4. Ability to use the app even if you aren't connected, or cannot connect remotely.

Also, you assert that we were moving away from desktop apps, when the opposite is true. Native apps are still insanely popular thanks to mobile devices. Even on an iOS device, you can run web apps as if they are local applications. It's incredibly useful here as well. Being able to install an application on your phone outside the App Store.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#18

Post by jbillingsley »

torme wrote: post #7
jbillingsley wrote: post #4

The idea of "one or more" stores distributing these apps seems likely to hurt profit margins for developers. I was intrigued until they mentioned that aspect.

Competition improves products. If anything, I'd think that it'd be better for developers.

If I'm understanding this correctly the competition wouldn't be dev vs dev but store vs store. If that is the case then your app becomes a commodity and each store will try to compete on price, lowering the dev's profit margin in the process.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#19

Post by boucher »

jasonlotito wrote: post #17
asnyder wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps, we were moving away from that and making lots of progress and now all of a sudden many are eager to return back to local desktop, but this time running inside a browser, doesn't make any sense at all. We should be moving forward, rather than going backwards.

> It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps Yes, there is. Being able to install a web app locally means several things immediately: 1. Local and remote storage of data beyond what traditional web apps can accomplish. 2. Snappier applications, since everything is stored locally. 3. You'll still be capable of being connected remotely. 4. Ability to use the app even if…

To be fair, very little of what's proposed in this project changes any of those points. You can already store data locally using localStorage APIs. You can already cache application content/scripts/resources locally using HTML Manifest files, which also let you use the application when you aren't connected to the net. And of course, you can always access remote resources when you are (even across domains using the new Cross Domain XHR technology).

The crux of what they are proposing is a standard way to actually say "I want this web site to be considered an 'app' that can be installed using whatever your platform wants to consider installing". In other words, a slightly more enhanced, standard version of adding an app to your homescreen on the iPhone.

Re: Mozilla Open Web App prototype

#20

Post by boucher »

jbillingsley wrote: post #18
torme wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition improves products. If anything, I'd think that it'd be better for developers.

If I'm understanding this correctly the competition wouldn't be dev vs dev but store vs store. If that is the case then your app becomes a commodity and each store will try to compete on price, lowering the dev's profit margin in the process.

That's like saying that having more than one grocery store hurts farmers. The farmers choose what price they sell their produce at, and the stores have to choose their own price based on how much profit they need to make on each sale.

In other words, nobody will be forcing these developers to be on a particular store -- unlike Apple's App Store, where you have to play on their terms.

Post reply on HN