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FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

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Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#11

Post by dragonwriter »

blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

> It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes.

If a better makes a mistake, they still lose their money.

The same should apply on the other side.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#13

Post by barrkel »

barking wrote: post #6

Owned by Paddy Power. Not surprised they are welching on the bet, they make a great play on what good sports they are in their advertising but will ban you if you show signs of not being a complete mug.

It looks to be usual practice across the industry in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/aug/02/betting-horse...

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#14

Post by DannyBee »

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2]

The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts.

(They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course)

BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just 4 words.

[1] http://state.nj.us/lps/ge/docs/Regulations/CHAPTER69N.pdf

[2] (c) Upon accepting a wager pursuant to this chapter, a wagering cashier shall cause the wagering system to generate a wagering ticket.

(IE them generating the ticket is acceptance)

(d) A wagering operator shall not unilaterally rescind any wager pursuant to this chapter without the prior written approval of the Division.

(h) Winning wagering tickets shall be redeemed by a wagering cashier after verifying the validity of the wagering ticket through the wagering system.

(IE they should have redeemed it because it was valid)

(k) No wagering ticket shall be voided after the start of the wagering event on which a wager has been placed

Another reason the could not have voided it.

Essentially the best argument they have is that it's a house rule under 13:69N2-2 . This only works if their internal controls were approved by the division. Even then, a reasonable court would likely find that clearly contrary to the written regulations (and thus, not a reasonable interpretation of the regulations by the commission).

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#15

Post by setr »

komali2 wrote: post #7
blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

They tried 500$ and 3 Giants tickets, which he declined in favor of getting a lawyer. I think they should bite the bullet, pay it out, turn to their software engineers, and say "it's worth 82,000$ to this company to ensure that never happens again."

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout.

Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening

And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#16

Post by pweissbrod »

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

I mildly disagree in the sense that what constitutes a "palpable" error is just too broad of a grey area.

It would be encouraging to see FanDuel just cough up the erroneous wager (which is surely cheaper than a lawsuit) and tighten down the definition of errors in spreads to something more specific such as anything outside like 2 standard deviations within the scope of a game*

*I'm not a gambler just someone who believes the definition of error can be mathematically defined for everyone's benefit

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#17

Post by lifeisstillgood »

>>> industry practice, which specifically address such obvious pricing errors.

I am in two minds here. Firstly this is a "contract" - honour it.

Secondly, I understand the industry practise, but Indont think it is in line with society needs - that is a human bookmaker would never have given 750-1 with the team leading and minutes to go.

So either you write software that won't do that and take the risk, or you stop using software to rinse every last penny out of human addiction

my preference is that mistakes in the software can bankrupt you. That way you pay attention to the software process

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#18

Post by supercanuck »

blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

PaddyPower's revenue is 1.75 billion. Why wouldn't Bill Gates just eat the cost of the mistake.

This isn't a "human interaction". A corporation isn't a human and is governed by the "make as much money as possible" theory (Shareholder Primacy), so why would we treat them the same as if this is a human interaction?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#19

Post by ddingus »

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Exactly.

What they could do is pay this guy off, then follow the good press for a very likely net gain.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#20

Post by ddingus »

setr wrote: post #15
komali2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried 500$ and 3 Giants tickets, which he declined in favor of getting a lawyer. I think they should bite the bullet, pay it out, turn to their software engineers, and say "it's worth 82,000$ to this company to ensure that never happens again."

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout. Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

Best use humans then. Otherwise there is no trust.

You know they did not inform people of errors the other way.

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