Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

polaris.gseis.ucla.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 31 posts

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#11

Post by _8j50 »

ta_egdhs wrote: post #8
buboard wrote: post #2

> A free society is a society in which there are limits on what the police can do. If we want to remain a free society then we need to make a decision I think the amount of legislation that effectively limits privacy / freedom in the past years shows that western societies no longer want to. It includes increased bank regulations / attempts to abolish cash / hate speech regulations / surveillance regulations / GDPR e…

As the conventional wisdom states, China is the future. There will come a time when us Westerners will need VPNs as well.

That time was like 10yrs ago...

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#12

Post by _8j50 »

jacobush wrote: post #3
buboard wrote: post #2

> A free society is a society in which there are limits on what the police can do. If we want to remain a free society then we need to make a decision I think the amount of legislation that effectively limits privacy / freedom in the past years shows that western societies no longer want to. It includes increased bank regulations / attempts to abolish cash / hate speech regulations / surveillance regulations / GDPR e…

GDPR is an attempt to grab some of the power back to the individual.

It's a messy thing,but you gotta start somewhere.

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#13

Post by davemp »

I’m of the opinion that identification should be the individual’s choice, ie supplying credentials.

When organizations gain the ability to identify without consent, the door is opened for some very malicious practices.

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#14

Post by amarkov »

jacobush wrote: post #3
buboard wrote: post #2

> A free society is a society in which there are limits on what the police can do. If we want to remain a free society then we need to make a decision I think the amount of legislation that effectively limits privacy / freedom in the past years shows that western societies no longer want to. It includes increased bank regulations / attempts to abolish cash / hate speech regulations / surveillance regulations / GDPR e…

GDPR is an attempt to grab some of the power back to the individual.

There's always a reason for expanding government bureaucracies. Some worthy problem, which the government plausibly could solve if it had just a little bit more power to intervene.

That doesn't change the direct consequence of the intervention, that there's now yet another area where the government sits there telling everyone what to do. If we believe that government ought to be limited, at some point we have to balance against that.

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#15

Post by UncleEntity »

jacobush wrote: post #3
buboard wrote: post #2

> A free society is a society in which there are limits on what the police can do. If we want to remain a free society then we need to make a decision I think the amount of legislation that effectively limits privacy / freedom in the past years shows that western societies no longer want to. It includes increased bank regulations / attempts to abolish cash / hate speech regulations / surveillance regulations / GDPR e…

GDPR is an attempt to grab some of the power back to the individual.

> GDPR is an attempt to grab some of the power back to the individual.

...and an attempt to grab some of the money from American corporations to the EU with billion euro fines.

https://www.targetmarketingmag.com/article/gdpr-lawsuits-tar...

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#16

Post by cpt1138 »

davemp wrote: post #13

I’m of the opinion that identification should be the individual’s choice, ie supplying credentials. When organizations gain the ability to identify without consent, the door is opened for some very malicious practices.

Can you explain this? I’ve always been of the opinion that some solutions proposed over the years have tried to do this but fail because the trusted entity is unknown a priori. I don’t see how you can invent a trust model that is basically “trust me the user and whatever choices I have made.”

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#17

Post by icebraining »

amarkov wrote: post #14
jacobush wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is an attempt to grab some of the power back to the individual.

There's always a reason for expanding government bureaucracies. Some worthy problem, which the government plausibly could solve if it had just a little bit more power to intervene. That doesn't change the direct consequence of the intervention, that there's now yet another area where the government sits there telling everyone what to do. If we believe that government ought to be limited, at some point we have to bala…

In my country, EU privacy laws applied by our National Data Protection Commission have prevented and pushed back against multiple governmental plans (cameras on the street, sensitive questions in the census, mandatory reporting of certain personal banking data, etc). Is that an increase or a decrease in the reach and size of government?

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#18

Post by abecedarius »

> In twenty years, at current rates of progress, it will be feasible for the Chinese government to use face recognition to track the public movements of everyone in the country.

When this note was published in 2001, I didn't expect the tech to become that good that fast. I was wrong. (Not that I thought it wouldn't happen, just that there'd be more time.)

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#19

Post by bb88 »

davemp wrote: post #13

I’m of the opinion that identification should be the individual’s choice, ie supplying credentials. When organizations gain the ability to identify without consent, the door is opened for some very malicious practices.

The argument for public safety though has been pretty overwhelming.

Britain just scored a big win in the novichok poisoning case by being able to trace the movements of Russian operatives using cameras.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/world/europe/russia-uk-no...

This trend will continue as long as the wins are bigger than the abuses.

Re: Your Face Is Not a Bar Code (2003)

#20

Post by tomsthumb »

bb88 wrote: post #19
davemp wrote: post #13

I’m of the opinion that identification should be the individual’s choice, ie supplying credentials. When organizations gain the ability to identify without consent, the door is opened for some very malicious practices.

The argument for public safety though has been pretty overwhelming. Britain just scored a big win in the novichok poisoning case by being able to trace the movements of Russian operatives using cameras. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/world/europe/russia-uk-no... This trend will continue as long as the wins are bigger than the abuses.

As long as the known wins are bigger than the known abuses.

There’s also the question of whether people understand and care about potential, or if it would need to happen first.

Post reply on HN