I absolutely consider time commuting as part of my work hours. I leave the office early and count the 45 minutes on the train as work time. Whether it's answering emails, writing some code, or working on documentation it's definitely work.
Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
11–20 of 179 posts
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pressure to compete. I don't think it's anything companies convinced people into doing, it seems more like one of those unwritten rules. Especially in tech. Your system breaks, you are responsible. Not good to simply look at the clock and say 'well that's a day' if you want more responsibility, leadership, respect, trust etc.
> Not good to simply look at the clock and say 'well that's a day' if you want more responsibility, leadership, respect, trust etc. Sadly, the effect of this is that there's less incentive to build resilient systems, since there's always someone available to fix things quickly. Trying to convince corporate to spend more time and money on building a system that looks/smells/feels the same, but is presumably more resil…
> Sadly, the effect of this is that there's less incentive to build resilient systems, since there's always someone available to fix things quickly.
Yep. It's often double-bad end result, since if you do build a resilient system, no one sees you "fix" it, so it looks like you did no extra work.
But if you build something broken, and then swoop in and "fix" it, you get extra credit for pulling "more" work after hours / during an emergency.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#13Well, obviously. Doing things which are part of work counts as work is hardly an innovative statement. The question is, how did companies persuade people that they should work for free on the way into the office?
I don't think it's this black and white. First, I'm sure plenty of companies are basically stealing from their employees, but this is also situational. I answer emails and slack whenever I can. On the flip side, I get work from home privileges, I show up when I want, I leave when I want, and I get put on exciting projects instead of boring ones. People who don't check their phones after-hours cannot be trusted to lea…
> People who don't check their phones after-hours cannot be trusted to lead projects with demanding clients.
Why not? Requiring off-hour access is admitting project management failure. That’s what on-call is for, and on-call engineers and management should rotate and be paid for on-call duty. For them, it’s working hours. When I’m on call for a client, I bill _for being available_, so basically for keeping the phone on.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#14Well, obviously. Doing things which are part of work counts as work is hardly an innovative statement. The question is, how did companies persuade people that they should work for free on the way into the office?
I don't think it's this black and white. First, I'm sure plenty of companies are basically stealing from their employees, but this is also situational. I answer emails and slack whenever I can. On the flip side, I get work from home privileges, I show up when I want, I leave when I want, and I get put on exciting projects instead of boring ones. People who don't check their phones after-hours cannot be trusted to lea…
> I get put on exciting projects instead of boring ones
Because you are often busy with work? (Even though you're not actually working, your mind is with your work)
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#15Please don't read/send email while driving. Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don't just give that time away to your current employer for free - unless your employer is a charity. Edit: Even if you work for a charity, giving away your time for free may not be a good idea. ;)
As an employee of a charity, I don’t think working off the clock makes sense there either. ;)
Charities pay for work just like anyone else. If you like, sure, make a donation. But make sure it’s formal. Otherwise you are robbing someone else of an opportunity to generously support the work AND if the “employee stretching to give” becomes organizational culture it can endanger the entire organization. Burn out is real.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#16Why is it always the company that "steals" time from workers?
I've seen plenty of time "stolen" from the company. We all know most white collar workers don't do 8 hours work.
Check your emails on the train and take a long lunch with mates. Meh.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#17Of course it does. I charge hours in my in transit because I am emailing and interacting with people at work and in my client projects.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pressure to compete. I don't think it's anything companies convinced people into doing, it seems more like one of those unwritten rules. Especially in tech. Your system breaks, you are responsible. Not good to simply look at the clock and say 'well that's a day' if you want more responsibility, leadership, respect, trust etc.
> Not good to simply look at the clock and say 'well that's a day' if you want more responsibility, leadership, respect, trust etc. Sadly, the effect of this is that there's less incentive to build resilient systems, since there's always someone available to fix things quickly. Trying to convince corporate to spend more time and money on building a system that looks/smells/feels the same, but is presumably more resil…
> Sadly, the effect of this is that there's less incentive to build resilient systems, since there's always someone available to fix things quickly.
I found this to be the opposite as long as the developer who wrote the system also owns the running of said system. It will not take many late night/weekend calls before the developer makes it more resilient.
Selling this to the business can be easy, because even if someone is there to fix it the system was presumably still down. This is why I push every developer to learn communication skills, and rudimentary business skills. If the developer (or their manager) cannot communicate to the business why a more resilient system is better for the business that's on them. This also requires developers to come off the "I only want to do it perfectly to 999999s", and again think about what can the business reasonably afford to do.
Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#19Well, obviously. Doing things which are part of work counts as work is hardly an innovative statement. The question is, how did companies persuade people that they should work for free on the way into the office?
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Re: Emails while commuting 'should count as work'
#20Please don't read/send email while driving. Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career, at this job and the next. Don't just give that time away to your current employer for free - unless your employer is a charity. Edit: Even if you work for a charity, giving away your time for free may not be a good idea. ;)
Use your bus/train time to study things that will help your career
Or leave 45 minutes early and work those 45 minutes on the train.