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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#11

Post by soared »

bunderbunder wrote: post #5
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

I believe in countries/cities like these its safer to not use a helmet. Drivers see that your being unsafe and give you much more room and are more aware of you. Less accidents and less deaths in total by not wearing a helmet!

I couldn't find the study that was posted on hn, but there are lots of articles.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#12

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

Very select cities are pretty good for biking. Boulder CO, for instance is pretty great b/c most people there bike. But yeah for a lot of places it's a nightmare.

Also our metro areas tend to spread out quite a bit, so to get from one area to another typically involves biking >5 miles.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#13

Post by cr1895 »

It wasn’t always this way.

There’s an interesting clip from a documentary in 1972 about the neighborhood De Pijp in Amsterdam, when it was still very much a car-centric city. At the time children in the area protested how dangerous the streets had become and how they lacked safe areas to play.

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/amsterdam-chil...

Compared to the situation now, it’s vastly improved. Fortunately the car did not win and the city did not destroy itself with a highway through the middle.

Edit

Here’s another (recent) documentary you might find interesting:

https://vimeo.com/123480693

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#14

Post by davidw »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #8
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. That's not geography, that's urban planning, or a lack of it. America's geographic size meant that we could sprawl, not that we had to. And indeed, especially in the post-WW2 e…

> That's not geography, that's urban planning, or a lack of it.

You're basically right, but it's land use regulation. We have plenty of 'planning' in the US, and it mostly keeps in place what's already there. If you look at the places built in the US before zoning codes and 'planning', a lot of them are actually quite nice because they were built more to adapt than things these days, which are "built to a finished state" to borrow a phrase from the folks at Strong Towns.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#15

Post by tonyedgecombe »

cr1895 wrote: post #13

It wasn’t always this way. There’s an interesting clip from a documentary in 1972 about the neighborhood De Pijp in Amsterdam, when it was still very much a car-centric city. At the time children in the area protested how dangerous the streets had become and how they lacked safe areas to play. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/amsterdam-chil... Compared to the situation now, it’s vastly improved. Fortunat…

I wonder if the fact they didn't have a significant car industry helped with this.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#16

Post by cr1895 »

wjnc wrote: post #4

A main one not pointed out: cars are always (extreme negligence would be the tipping point) liable for crashes with cyclists and pedestrians. That's quite supportive for keeping an eye out for possible danger. To support that liability insurance is obligatory for motorists. The one on left vs. right really is not even close to an issue. I would guess most MPs of most parties cycle to work. There is literally not a (n…

There’s something to be said about which parties favor encouraging or discouraging car use in cities or restrictions of motorized vehicles on the cycle paths (which the interview also did not really cover).

But you’re right...no one is discouraging biking.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#17

Post by phil248 »

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes.

In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#19

Post by bluejekyll »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous.

I understand this perspective, but as a counter to this, if no one bikes in the US then this won't change. I ride all over San Francisco. In the last 18 years of me living here things have gotten better and better for the cyclist, but there are still many areas that can be improved. I encourage you to support local organizations, like the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition, which can pressure local governments to make changes that improve safety for all cyclists.

For too long in the US we've designed our roads with the idea that cars have some right to the road that others do not. We're finally starting to rectify that in cities across the country, and it's only getting better.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#20

Post by grenoire »

phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

Get off the red paths and we're good. Jokes (?) aside, I don't think that's because of the cyclist profile but more about the people in the Netherlands in general. People are just not in a rush.
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