What happens when we work non-stop • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#11

Post by watwut » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 10:21 AM UTC

cheschire wrote: post #5

How many software developers do you know who say they don't "work" outside of the office, but then write code at home for personal projects? What is the definition of "work" then? What would happen if you start to let go of the concept of "work" as the bad thing, and expand the argument? I suggest we instead say using the same parts of your body and mind to the exclusion of the other parts is what is bad for you. Kno…

There are many professional developers who don't have side projects they would attend to regularly. Majority dont and those who do don't work on them every day.

Those I have seen to work on side projects almost every day acted similarly to people who worked long hours - eithet got burned after a while or their hourly productivity at work went down (they chatted and socialized more at work, we're more talkative during meetings, procrastinated and wasted time with play tasks instead of doing real task).

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#12

Post by atlantic » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 10:29 AM UTC

lixtra wrote: post #3

Working nonstop is a natural state. Think of parents. Of course you cannot code for 14h every day. You have to vary your work. Personally I can concentrate for only 5h if I want to maintain that for several days in a row. I felt very burnt out after 8h of coding. It took me a while to understand that it’s okay to just concentrate for 5h and use the rest for communication and socializing. I also do solve personal prob…

I think that what you mean is that being active non-stop is a natural state. Perhaps even being usefully active. But latching on to a single activity to the detriment of all other aspects of your life, and then collapsing on the couch for the remainder of the time, is anything but.

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#13

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:23 AM UTC

sebazzz wrote: post #2

I see this happening with direct collegues of mine. Working in the weekend, working in the evening. Even parttimers running constant overtime, when it doesn't appear to be necessary. Having a few work-related phone calls even on holiday. I believe this creates a constant "attachment" to work, and does not allow you to detach. Especially on holidays you should be able to detach and be able to forget work for a few wee…

I've noticed it sometimes ramps up even when management isn't really encouraging it and nobody actually wants to do it.

It's the most straightforward means of signaling relative dedication to the company - Joe the most insecure programmer can attempt to compensate for his skill insecurity by showing more dedication by working longer hours.

That then means that Jane feels implicit, unspoken pressure to work longer because "Joe is doing it". Then this 'arms race' dynamic takes off and eventually it becomes expected and long hours become part of the culture.

It's at its absolute worst when management aren't technical and have to use various "rule of thumb" proxies to determine who is performing well and who isn't, because in the absence of deep technical knowledge guess how they measure you all?

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#14

Post by bitxbit » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:48 AM UTC

lixtra wrote: post #3

Working nonstop is a natural state. Think of parents. Of course you cannot code for 14h every day. You have to vary your work. Personally I can concentrate for only 5h if I want to maintain that for several days in a row. I felt very burnt out after 8h of coding. It took me a while to understand that it’s okay to just concentrate for 5h and use the rest for communication and socializing. I also do solve personal prob…

I am sorry but that gave me a chuckle. So you code for five hours and socialize for three?

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#15

Post by badpun » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 11:53 AM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #14

lixtra wrote: post #3

Working nonstop is a natural state. Think of parents. Of course you cannot code for 14h every day. You have to vary your work. Personally I can concentrate for only 5h if I want to maintain that for several days in a row. I felt very burnt out after 8h of coding. It took me a while to understand that it’s okay to just concentrate for 5h and use the rest for communication and socializing. I also do solve personal prob…

I am sorry but that gave me a chuckle. So you code for five hours and socialize for three?

I think it's pretty standard in many corporate coding jobs, at least here in Europe. Often, if you include meetings in the "socialize" coulmn, the numbers are even switched.

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#16

Post by aestetix » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

> As put by a 2006 academic paper from Ian Towers, a researcher from SRH Hochschule in Berlin, mobile technology “increases expectations: managers and colleagues alike expect staff to be almost always available to do work”.

A little surprised to see this line. In Germany, there is a law (cannot recall the name), that effectively states that you cannot be fired if you don't reply to a work email or phone call between 6pm and 9am. If you want to, you can, but it cannot be held against you.

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#17

Post by ezequiel-garzon » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

aestetix wrote: post #16

> As put by a 2006 academic paper from Ian Towers, a researcher from SRH Hochschule in Berlin, mobile technology “increases expectations: managers and colleagues alike expect staff to be almost always available to do work”. A little surprised to see this line. In Germany, there is a law (cannot recall the name), that effectively states that you cannot be fired if you don't reply to a work email or phone call between…

Probably the employer won’t cite that as a reason...

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#18

Post by vimy » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 12:44 PM UTC

aestetix wrote: post #16

> As put by a 2006 academic paper from Ian Towers, a researcher from SRH Hochschule in Berlin, mobile technology “increases expectations: managers and colleagues alike expect staff to be almost always available to do work”. A little surprised to see this line. In Germany, there is a law (cannot recall the name), that effectively states that you cannot be fired if you don't reply to a work email or phone call between…

2006 is already 12 years ago and those kind of laws are very recent.

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#19

Post by lixtra » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #14

lixtra wrote: post #3

Working nonstop is a natural state. Think of parents. Of course you cannot code for 14h every day. You have to vary your work. Personally I can concentrate for only 5h if I want to maintain that for several days in a row. I felt very burnt out after 8h of coding. It took me a while to understand that it’s okay to just concentrate for 5h and use the rest for communication and socializing. I also do solve personal prob…

I am sorry but that gave me a chuckle. So you code for five hours and socialize for three?

I wrote concentrate not code. Socializing was more a term for mails, calls and meetings plus the sometimes very productive coffee machine talk.

I can code without concentration but did you ever measure your productivity and and error rate over time? For me 5h is a sweet spot after that error rate goes up and productivity goes down. If the errors are significant they could cost much more time later on. If the job isn’t that sensitive of course you don’t have to concentrate.

Re: What happens when we work non-stop

#20

Post by distances » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #10

akullpp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy, exactly the same happens at my company. Everyone is available and communicating even when on paternity/maternity leave or on vacation somewhere on an island. Many people see their value directly tied to their career and one of the major ways to make you (feel) important is to be present. It also helps your career since many old companies value presence over other criteria. I'm three weeks ill now and for the…

I worked hard to break that habit in myself. My workplace (telco) gives all employees a phone and home internet, both with unlimited subscription, 100% free for private use as well, and a cable TV package if we want it. The purpose is that we can work from home as necessary, and obviously also act as brand ambassadors. Our phones are eligible for replacement every 3 years or so, for free. For a lot of my colleagues,…

My workplace provides a phone too, but doesn't require out-of-hours availability. I've written down my number in the company internal phone book, but I doubt any of my colleagues took it from there; I also don't have work email even configured in my phone, and haven't installed VPN access for my home computer.

I pretty much can't work outside of the office. Makes it very easy to keep work and leisure separated.