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National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

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Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#11

Post by pythonslayer »

troupe wrote: post #6
prolikewh0a wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technically not illegal under the 13th amendment. > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Not saying I agree with that part of the 13th amendment, I abhor it personally.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

Maybe I am misunderstanding but “as a service” makes me think they are selling the labor to private companies.

Given we pay so much in taxes for our prisons, I’m not convinced this is just covering their room and board.

According to a quick search, Design2Part is a manufacturing trade show. I didn’t know that before.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#12

Post by lightbyte »

jbob2000 wrote: post #8
troupe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

Nobody should be in prison longer than their rehabilitation takes and the focus of their stay should 100% be rehabilitation. The prison system should be structured around reducing costs by getting people out of the system, not reducing costs by getting those in the system to do work.

>Nobody should be in prison longer than their rehabilitation takes and the focus of their stay should 100% be rehabilitation

That would be nice, but our current justice system is not even remotely close to being anything like this. That will take generations of change. You're trying to say we should be at step Z when we haven't even gotten to A yet.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#13

Post by kiliantics »

troupe wrote: post #6
prolikewh0a wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technically not illegal under the 13th amendment. > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Not saying I agree with that part of the 13th amendment, I abhor it personally.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

The work often offsets costs for private companies so it doesn't even go back to taxpayers.

But yes, imprisoning people is ridiculously expensive and that cost is borne by the taxpayer while offering almost no benefit. We should not be imprisoning them to give private companies a cheaper labour source.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#14

Post by rascul »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #5
prolikewh0a wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technically not illegal under the 13th amendment. > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Not saying I agree with that part of the 13th amendment, I abhor it personally.

The only time I heard anyone being sentenced to "hard labor" was in the military, so it seems like if you're given incarceration at your sentencing then that shouldn't automatically mean you're being sentenced to work while you're there? The punishment is incarceration, not labor, right? I guess this is an area where I'm exceptionally under-educated, so if you've got any good suggestions for reading on the topic I'd…

See Louisiana for an example.

http://www.lafayetteowilawyer.com/helpfulvideos/beingsentenc...

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#15

Post by dominotw »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

> Either it’s worth it to us or it’s not.

CA has to release thousands of prisons soon due to funding issues.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#16

Post by nosseo »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

> "opponents have argued that prisoners do need real wages to be able to buy basic necessities other than food in the prisons"

This seems like a problem even if prisoner wages are raised. If we incarcerate people, we should provide them with toothbrushes even if they can't/won't risk their lives fighting fires for a pittance.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#17

Post by kiliantics »

prolikewh0a wrote: post #3
Animats wrote: post #2

Yes. I went to the Design2Part show in Santa Clara a few months ago. The California Department of Corrections had a booth there, offering slave labor as a service.

It's technically not illegal under the 13th amendment. > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Not saying I agree with that part of the 13th amendment, I abhor it personally.

reminds me of the MLK quote:

"One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#18

Post by wildmusings »

jbob2000 wrote: post #8
troupe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

Nobody should be in prison longer than their rehabilitation takes and the focus of their stay should 100% be rehabilitation. The prison system should be structured around reducing costs by getting people out of the system, not reducing costs by getting those in the system to do work.

What business does the state have telling you how you should feel? How you think think? What you believe? Rehabilitation is much more totalitarian than just giving you what you deserve and letting you get on with your life. The true content of your character is your business and your business alone. The rest of us should just be concerned with what you intentionally do.

If you think you were justified in your crime and can never be convinced otherwise, you don’t belong in jail for the rest of your life. You belong in jail for as long as you deserve and not a second longer.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#19

Post by pythonslayer »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #5
prolikewh0a wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's technically not illegal under the 13th amendment. > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Not saying I agree with that part of the 13th amendment, I abhor it personally.

The only time I heard anyone being sentenced to "hard labor" was in the military, so it seems like if you're given incarceration at your sentencing then that shouldn't automatically mean you're being sentenced to work while you're there? The punishment is incarceration, not labor, right? I guess this is an area where I'm exceptionally under-educated, so if you've got any good suggestions for reading on the topic I'd…

It makes sense to me.

As a person with Autism, I have always been scared of a misunderstanding with a police officer that would land me in jail, which is a common issue. I would calm my nerves by telling myself “it will be OK. I will think of it as a lot of time to read.”

I later learned books are very hard to come by at prisons, which adds a bit to my fear of going out and doing things.

Knowing I would be forced to work is terrifying because it would necessitate so many more misunderstandings.

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