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The inescapable weight of my student debt

theguardian.com

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Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#11

Post by bufferoverflow »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
fatalVoltage wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do actually since when I was 17 I got advice by all my teachers, parents, etc to go into something that pays. Also it's just common sense that you need money to pay your bills, therefore you need a job that is in demand.

The part of the brain responsible for critical reasoning about consequences isn't fully developed until 25 (see: car rental company age limits). Also, congrats on your strong support system! A lot of people don't have that, and you can't form public policy based on your sole experience.

Ok, so he can now study something that pays and then pay off his debt. Nobody forced him to take loans.

I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money.

I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done?

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#12

Post by toomuchtodo »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #11
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part of the brain responsible for critical reasoning about consequences isn't fully developed until 25 (see: car rental company age limits). Also, congrats on your strong support system! A lot of people don't have that, and you can't form public policy based on your sole experience.

Ok, so he can now study something that pays and then pay off his debt. Nobody forced him to take loans. I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money. I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done?

> I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money.

A single anecdote holds no value for broad policy decisions.

> I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done?

I financially support candidates who support discharging student loan debt. It's a drag on the US economy, and would provide more financial stimulus than tax cuts for the wealthy.

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#13

Post by bufferoverflow »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
bufferoverflow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so he can now study something that pays and then pay off his debt. Nobody forced him to take loans. I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money. I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done?

> I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money. A single anecdote holds no value for broad policy decisions. > I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done? I financially support candidates who support discharging…

I assume "discharging student loan debt" is the euphemism for "let the taxpayer pay for that undesirable pile of shit that he chose to study".

That will only worsen the situation - more young people will study shit that's not in demand.

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#14

Post by hussar »

torstenvl wrote: post #4
fatalVoltage wrote: post #2

As soon as I read that he graduated with a degree in "English Literature" I knew what the problem was - what did he expect? Where does he think the demand for that is? How did he justify 100k$ for such a degree ( or any degree for that part )? There are so many jobs like welding, plumbing, etc that need to be done, pay very good money and require no ( or very small ) loans, and he studied something like English Liter…

Seems like you're victim-blaming. Do you really think a 17-year-old has the capacity to sort through the wrong career guidance? This problem is emphatically not of the students' own making. It's on the teachers and guidance counselors who insist on a college degree at any cost and brook no disagreement.

Who are they a victim of? Let us blame him openly as a warning to other young people.

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#15

Post by hussar »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #10
EliRivers wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a bullshit degree just because it doesn't lead to a high-paying job? Or is there some other criterion at work?

It's not bullshit, but, as you said, it's not high-paying, and that's known ahead if time. He chose his direction, and now he complains about the results. You're not entitled to high pay, just because you chose something fun instead of something in demand.

> I had studied English because I wanted to be a writer. I never had an expectation of becoming rich. I didn’t care about money.

Found his problem.

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#16

Post by toomuchtodo »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #13
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I paid for my own education in the US, and I worked while studying. It wasn't easy, but I recognized the value of money. A single anecdote holds no value for broad policy decisions. > I'm not even sure what your argument is for. Do you want us to pitch in for his bad financial decisions? Why don't you pay him from your checking account, show us how it's done? I financially support candidates who support discharging…

I assume "discharging student loan debt" is the euphemism for "let the taxpayer pay for that undesirable pile of shit that he chose to study". That will only worsen the situation - more young people will study shit that's not in demand.

The recently approved $717 billion in defense spending increased military spending by $80 billion dollars, far in excess of what would've been necessary to provide free college to everyone. Hard to argue the moral hazard on education spending when you're firehosing billions of dollars of taxpayer money into a dumpster fire already.

"Those concerns were brushed aside Monday night, as the Senate overwhelmingly approved an $80 billion annual increase in military spending, enough to have fully satisfied Sanders’s campaign promise. Instead, the Senate handed President Donald Trump far more than the $54 billion he asked for. The lavish spending package gives Trump a major legislative victory, allowing him to boast about fulfilling his promise of a “great rebuilding of the armed services.

Or with $80 billion a year, you could make public colleges and universities in the U.S. tuition-free. In fact, Sanders’s proposal was only estimated to cost the federal government $47 billion per year."

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/18/the-senates-military-spe...

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#17

Post by derivagral »

itake wrote: post #6
torstenvl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you're victim-blaming. Do you really think a 17-year-old has the capacity to sort through the wrong career guidance? This problem is emphatically not of the students' own making. It's on the teachers and guidance counselors who insist on a college degree at any cost and brook no disagreement.

From the article, he had a BS and a MA. I guess he decided to double down on "English literature" at age ~21 and take on even more debt.

>I enrolled for an evening class in French at New York's Cooper Union, as that deferred my having to start paying off the debt, and the cost of the new class was cheaper than the monthly repayments I would have to make.

He did, and I'm not sure the best way to educate people that, while actions like this will defer their payments, interest does still accrue (afaik).

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#18

Post by bko »

torstenvl wrote: post #4
fatalVoltage wrote: post #2

As soon as I read that he graduated with a degree in "English Literature" I knew what the problem was - what did he expect? Where does he think the demand for that is? How did he justify 100k$ for such a degree ( or any degree for that part )? There are so many jobs like welding, plumbing, etc that need to be done, pay very good money and require no ( or very small ) loans, and he studied something like English Liter…

Seems like you're victim-blaming. Do you really think a 17-year-old has the capacity to sort through the wrong career guidance? This problem is emphatically not of the students' own making. It's on the teachers and guidance counselors who insist on a college degree at any cost and brook no disagreement.

If you don't believe a 17 year old has the capacity, then perhaps the federal government shouldn't be giving him a subsidized student loan of that size. Private institutions would decide and charge the appropriate rate based on risk. Private organizations often do this and loans from Sofi or others are often below the federal rate, which creates a perverse selection bias where federal loans are the most likely to have issues.

Re: The inescapable weight of my student debt

#19

Post by bluejay2387 »

There are books published by the US Government in almost every public library in the United States that have detailed earning stats and employment forecasts on every career. There are an enormous number of web sites (including sites maintained by the government) that offer the same information with a few seconds of searching. At some point people need to take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.
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