Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#11

Post by TuringNYC » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #7

Agustus wrote: post #4

The best note on this was from the Republican running for attorney general in the state in that he could not believe that the city was returning to the racist system whereby blacks would be having a reduced mobility option because of the known, yet not handled, yellow cabs not picking up blacks. A better system was identified that helped fix an issue and we have a city council so beholden to the taxi network that the…

Have the green cabs helped in that regard?

Not sure, but green cabs do address the bias against the non-Manhattan crowd. It is very common for yellow cabs in NYC to refuse rides to Brooklyn/etc. Destination discrimination "isnt allowed" but there isn't really a way to enforce the rule.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#12

Post by bumholio » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

> The price of a taxi medallion, which is required to operate a taxi in New York, has plunged from more than $1 million to less than $200,000.

Clearly, a cap on ride hailing licenses can only mean that the already licensed drivers stand to gain a similar amount by pimping their license to various competing services until they get the best deal. It's simple economics, assuming taxis and Ubers are comparable to the average consumer.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#13

Post by CPLX » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #6

Given the problem, this seems like a reasonable action on the part of the NYC City Council. But I'm confused by section on congestion pricing: > Many experts believe congestion pricing is the best way for New York City to fix congestion and secure the funds needed to fix the subway. Mr. Johnson supports the idea, but Mr. de Blasio has opposed it. Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the subway, has said he will push fo…

Because it's regressive. It takes money away from people who drive, who are often people who are blue collar, spread out in the outer boroughs, or who need to bring tools to do their jobs, those who are forced to cross the city to get anywhere west of town, etc.

Sure, that's not the only effect it will have, it will also cost money for bankers that drive in from Westchester and park underneath their midtown offices. But, as you can imagine, it won't change their behavior much -- by definition the only people that it will affect are people who can't easily afford it.

If you look at it in a different way, congestion pricing takes a public good that everyone paid to create, the roads and streets of the central business district, and reserves them so they can only be used by drivers with lots of money. There are problems with that approach.

Of course there's another side to the argument, obviously. But I feel like many people don't realize this issue cuts in two directions, rather than just being an obvious "good idea".

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#14

Post by ddtaylor » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of cars on the streets of Manhattan are Uber/Lyft, vs. taxi cabs, vs. private vehicles vs. other commercial ones. Claiming to limit Uber license to alleviate congestion is a bullshit argument unless you can show that they make up a significant percentage of traffic. Also, to be clear, I'm not an Uber apologist; they can go fuck themselves as quickly as they move and break things.

What's wrong with a vast majority of the vehicles on the road not being owned by the people who use them for transportation? It seems that a large amount of people don't want to purchase and maintain a vehicle they might not always be using and instead pay on-demand like they do for many other services where someone specializes to reduce the cost for others?

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#15

Post by colinbartlett » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #7

Agustus wrote: post #4

The best note on this was from the Republican running for attorney general in the state in that he could not believe that the city was returning to the racist system whereby blacks would be having a reduced mobility option because of the known, yet not handled, yellow cabs not picking up blacks. A better system was identified that helped fix an issue and we have a city council so beholden to the taxi network that the…

Have the green cabs helped in that regard?

Green cabs have definitely helped with added supply though I can't speak to how they have addressed marginalized groups.

But the green cab solution is half baked. It really frustrates me as an Upper Manhattan resident that I cannot take a green cab back uptown to my home. I have often seen them lower in Manhattan and they are required to drive back empty while I try to find a yellow cab.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#16

Post by wpietri » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #6

Given the problem, this seems like a reasonable action on the part of the NYC City Council. But I'm confused by section on congestion pricing: > Many experts believe congestion pricing is the best way for New York City to fix congestion and secure the funds needed to fix the subway. Mr. Johnson supports the idea, but Mr. de Blasio has opposed it. Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the subway, has said he will push fo…

Congestion pricing is generally politically unpopular in that it trades clear price increases and the attendant hassle around charging for hazy-sounding benefits.

At least until it's implemented, anyhow. Once people see congestion drastically reduced, it becomes more popular: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/12/06/for-politicians-conge...

It also pretty obviously favors the rich, which is not a big vote-getter.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#17

Post by simonbarker87 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #11

pavel_lishin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the green cabs helped in that regard?

Not sure, but green cabs do address the bias against the non-Manhattan crowd. It is very common for yellow cabs in NYC to refuse rides to Brooklyn/etc. Destination discrimination "isnt allowed" but there isn't really a way to enforce the rule.

Could you lie when hailing the cab and once inside say they misheard you and say the genuine destination? Not allowed I imagine but pretty hard to enforce that rule? (Genuine question, as a UK reaident I’ve little experience of the US taxi system and have always had excellent service from taxi firms in the UK - as a result I’ve never really understood the problem Uber is solving in the UK)

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#18

Post by dionidium » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #13

tonysdg wrote: post #6

Given the problem, this seems like a reasonable action on the part of the NYC City Council. But I'm confused by section on congestion pricing: > Many experts believe congestion pricing is the best way for New York City to fix congestion and secure the funds needed to fix the subway. Mr. Johnson supports the idea, but Mr. de Blasio has opposed it. Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the subway, has said he will push fo…

Because it's regressive. It takes money away from people who drive, who are often people who are blue collar, spread out in the outer boroughs, or who need to bring tools to do their jobs, those who are forced to cross the city to get anywhere west of town, etc. Sure, that's not the only effect it will have, it will also cost money for bankers that drive in from Westchester and park underneath their midtown offices.…

This is the most common objection, but it's not a very strong one, for at least two reasons:

1. There's no reason we couldn't provide exceptions for the kinds of vans and trucks that blue-collar workers need to drive into the city to make their livings.

2. There's no reason we couldn't offer income-based exceptions to people who absolutely cannot ride transit for this or that reason.

As in all proposals to ration some scarce resource, it's important to understand that we already ration it, even if it's not explicit. Today, we do it by literally clogging the streets so much that nobody else can get through. (And now we've added this new way, too.) Surely nobody thinks that's the smartest way to ration.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#19

Post by djsumdog » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

pmart123 wrote: post #3

NYC is closing down the L train next year for a year at the very least. So far, the city has proposed more water taxis as the primary solution to handle rerouting the 300k daily riders. Right now, the water taxi ridership is 1370 people per day. Secondarily, the city has indicated it might make some of the bridges carpool or ride-share only. Either way, all signs point to the shutdown heading towards a painful if not…

This is sad. NYC is one of the few (like 2, maybe 3) America cities with an actual usable rail system and it's rotted into disrepair.

I'm all for limiting rid share vehicles and better wages for drivers, but they need to dump a shit ton of time and money into the rail system, both the subway and intercity. Fix Penn Station, and get the tracks up to spec! That should be the #1 priority for city transport infrastructure.

Re: Uber Hit with Cap as New York City Takes Lead in Crackdown

#20

Post by Eric_WVGG » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #6

Given the problem, this seems like a reasonable action on the part of the NYC City Council. But I'm confused by section on congestion pricing: > Many experts believe congestion pricing is the best way for New York City to fix congestion and secure the funds needed to fix the subway. Mr. Johnson supports the idea, but Mr. de Blasio has opposed it. Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the subway, has said he will push fo…

The charitable explanation is that "rich people take Ubers, poor people in the outer borroughs drive their own cars." The cynic would point out that "Mayor Minivan" is notorious for driving an SUV from Manhattan to his favorite gym in deep Brooklyn every morning, making him precisely the kind of person who would take a hit from congestion pricing.

As the subway crumbles, ride-share and taxis are the only practical way most people can get around. The cab-limiting "medallion" system led to infamous corruption (Michael Cohen, a name you might have heard from the news, owns an entire fleet of them); most New Yorkers thus consider ride-share to be a godsend. I don't see how capping ride share will result in anything but making Ubers as terrible as yellow cabs.

btw, if ride-share is capped at current levels, that means that traffic would merely not-get-any-worse than it already is. This will do nothing to reduce traffic; congestion pricing would accomplish something.