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MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

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11–20 of 22 posts

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#11
This is all missing the point. And is a typical case of solving the problem with a "bigger hammer".

China is building a national rail network running at 350km/h to with the goal of putting any city within an 8 hour travel radius of Beijing. http://www.globalissues.org/news/2010/09/30/7114

Kind of makes domestic air travel somewhat obsolete and really quite unnecessary.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#12
post #11

This is all missing the point. And is a typical case of solving the problem with a "bigger hammer". China is building a national rail network running at 350km/h to with the goal of putting any city within an 8 hour travel radius of Beijing. http://www.globalissues.org/news/2010/09/30/7114 Kind of makes domestic air travel somewhat obsolete and really quite unnecessary.

Why is rail travel inherently superior to air? Every spot in the continental U.S. is already well within 8 hours of...everywhere.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#13
post #12
post #11

This is all missing the point. And is a typical case of solving the problem with a "bigger hammer". China is building a national rail network running at 350km/h to with the goal of putting any city within an 8 hour travel radius of Beijing. http://www.globalissues.org/news/2010/09/30/7114 Kind of makes domestic air travel somewhat obsolete and really quite unnecessary.

Why is rail travel inherently superior to air? Every spot in the continental U.S. is already well within 8 hours of...everywhere.

Ah... you can get up and go to the bathroom during "take-off" is one of the main reasons that come to mind.

But, there are may others relating to carbon footprint per tonne.km traveled, which have greater relevance.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#14
Isn't the really interesting thing that they're proposing fuselage and wing shapes that you can't design without using "modern" (developed after 1965) methods? The cylindrical fuselage standard passenger jet design is something you can design using a slide rule or pocket calculator and a copy of "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain".

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#16
post #12
post #11

This is all missing the point. And is a typical case of solving the problem with a "bigger hammer". China is building a national rail network running at 350km/h to with the goal of putting any city within an 8 hour travel radius of Beijing. http://www.globalissues.org/news/2010/09/30/7114 Kind of makes domestic air travel somewhat obsolete and really quite unnecessary.

Why is rail travel inherently superior to air? Every spot in the continental U.S. is already well within 8 hours of...everywhere.

for short to medium distances it is:

1. Much more comfortable (wider seats, more luggage space, etc)

2. A lot more convenient. No taking off shoes, check points and lines. Plus the chances are a train station would be a lot closer to the center of the city, rather than an airport.

3. Cheaper and less pollution.

E.g. If the CA High Speed Rail got build, it would take about 2.5 hrs. from downtown SF, to downtown LA. By plane it is about 50mins. BUT, you should add the time it takes for check in check out (at least 45mins), then the time to travel to the airport themselves (30 mins with Bart, if you live in SF), etc. If High Speed Rail would have been implemented throughout most of the major cities of US, It just wouldn't make sense to fly for short and medium distances. Coast to Coast, yes, coast to Midwest yes, SF to LA or LV, probably not.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#17
A common problem with this wide body design is that it makes turning the plane harder. Because people are further from center they will feel the dips of the wings more as the plane banks for a turn. The pilot would have to make wider & shallower turns to compensate so people don't get sick.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#18

The article claims a 70% fuel efficiency increase, and another quoted part claims a 70% reduction in fuel use. Which is it?

Journalists typically don't "get" percentages, so they just throw them around and hope it's correct.

Other examples:

"Crime rate drops with 8%!" ... compared to what and when?

"Inflation now 2% higher" ... does that mean inflation went from 1% to 1.02% or to 3%?

The mere notion that you can express change of a metric (expressed as percentage), as a percentage would probably destroy the average journalist's brain.

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#19
post #15

I thought a 737 was a specific model of plane, no? Wouldn't this be a completely different model? Can someone explain what makes a 737 a 737 and why you would still call something with as much change as this a 737 still?

Two ideas: they are using 737 as synonymous with small-to-midsize passenger jet. They could as well use Airbus 318/319/320, but Boeing wouldn't like it.

They are implying this will be a commercial hit of the same size as the 737, so it's worth of government funding (because if they don't develop it, Airbus will).

Re: MIT proposes to Reinvent the 737 for 70% greater fuel efficiency

#20
post #14

Isn't the really interesting thing that they're proposing fuselage and wing shapes that you can't design without using "modern" (developed after 1965) methods? The cylindrical fuselage standard passenger jet design is something you can design using a slide rule or pocket calculator and a copy of "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain".

I am very happy flying in things that could be designed with a slide-rule. If the computer program that analyzed the fuselage is wrong and I can't spot the error because the result is too complex for a human to have a clue, I'll die anyway, regardless of what the computer said.

I like what a test-pilot once told me: We don't need milestones. We need inchstones.

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