The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future • Hacker News Board

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#11

Post by pg » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:32 PM UTC

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them.

But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the labels are doing is hosing themselves, because they won't have startups working to develop whatever would have been the new ways of delivering and using label music. They've created an anti-platform.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#12

Post by thehodge » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:34 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #8

Google music. Who cares? Oh right, you guys don't have Spotify. I don't know anyone that has it that bothers with iTunes or actually buying music anymore. Get the free version, and get any music anytime and the occasional ad. Pay a few bucks a month, and you get any music anytime with no ads.

Spotify is excellent, I love it but more and more I get tracks in playlists that are 'not playable in your country' or 'the record label has chosen to make this track unavailable'

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#13

Post by DevX101 » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:36 PM UTC

Disparity wrote: post #10

henrikschroder wrote: post #8

Google music. Who cares? Oh right, you guys don't have Spotify. I don't know anyone that has it that bothers with iTunes or actually buying music anymore. Get the free version, and get any music anytime and the occasional ad. Pay a few bucks a month, and you get any music anytime with no ads.

Well, we do have Grooveshark. But it probably won't last. :(

If it's lasted this long it will probably keep going for some time yet. They have a pretty clear song takedown policy, so any music being shared on grooveshark is likely being done so with the full consent of the label.

Grooveshark is also paying the music owners royalty from a share of their ad revenue.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#14

Post by 1010011010 » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:38 PM UTC

1010011010 wrote: post #3

jbarham wrote: post #2

> Nobody’s going to pay Google $25 a year to store their music in a cloud. I'd pay that to be rid of iTunes.

Me too. iTunes is just horrible. I'd love a non-iTunes way of getting my music onto an iPod.

Hmm: http://fusepod.sourceforge.net/

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#15

Post by ethank » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:39 PM UTC

Personally, it's extremely simplistic to say that the labels aren't "changing"

The ecosystem, the market, and working with artists engenders a much more complicated landscape than one might think.

agentultra has some good points there.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#16

Post by sabat » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:40 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them

That's true, but not as true as you might suspect. Pandora is profitable. Yes, they are certainly pumping a large amount of money to the record labels, but they're able to exist without driving their users away with over-advertising.

I wouldn't do a (label) music-based startup today, though. Sad.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#17

Post by Disparity » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:45 PM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #13

Disparity wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we do have Grooveshark. But it probably won't last. :(

If it's lasted this long it will probably keep going for some time yet. They have a pretty clear song takedown policy, so any music being shared on grooveshark is likely being done so with the full consent of the label. Grooveshark is also paying the music owners royalty from a share of their ad revenue.

IIRC, Grooveshark only pays EMI royalties, and UMG is taking them to court. Sony and Warner have no deals.

I'd be curious to see what Sony and Warner choose to do.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#18

Post by yesimahuman » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:48 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #8

Google music. Who cares? Oh right, you guys don't have Spotify. I don't know anyone that has it that bothers with iTunes or actually buying music anymore. Get the free version, and get any music anytime and the occasional ad. Pay a few bucks a month, and you get any music anytime with no ads.

While not free ($5/mo), mog.com has been awesome for me. The only time I buy on iTunes is if I have gift cards and need to burn a CD for my old car stereo.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#19

Post by coliveira » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:51 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #7

The point about the labels doing it to themselves is probably only half the story. The other half is the culturally ingrained phenomena of "the dream." Many artists jamming in their basements dream of "signing," and expect a big advance, tours, radio play, and all of that old-world stuff. Many today of course realize that there's the Internet and they can afford to distribute their work for pennies and market to thei…

I think labels will continue to have its piece of the market. Not the whole market as in the past, but a important one, because they still control access to mainstream media.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#20

Post by Disparity » Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 6:52 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

What PG says is 100% true. I say this having done a startup in the space.

In a nut shell, you need roughly $1M upfront for legal fees to negotiate with the big four record labels (for an interactive service, not a non-interactive service like Pandora).