The only part of this that makes me think that a fork will have to happen is the fact that IBM, HP, Google, RedHat, etc… have got to be more than a little uncomfortable with Oracle in the driver's seat.
Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
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Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#12Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#13I doubt that even the best quality fork can compete with Oracles sales machine, no matter how badly they ruin Java. Even if all the great and passionate Java developers leave to become Python programmers, Java will still be the most common language out there.
On top of that Java has the brand.
Programmers may not feel positive about it but it's embedded in a lot of large organisations, many of whom will, at the management level, be perfectly happy with the Oracle acquisition. They won't see the need or the appeal to move to something else until there is a strong incentive to do so.
Against that sort of entrenchment programmers will struggle to influence things a whole load in a lot of Java's key markets.
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#14Can't we just get IBM to make J9 free & open? Last I checked, they supported more OSes than Sun did and the VM was pretty speedy too.
I wonder how encumbered it is with Oracle contractual restrictions? Didn't IBM at one point license Sun code to build its own version of the JVM?
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#15Wouldn't a fork be running smack into a patent suit? I confess to not understanding the Java ecosystem at all, but I do know that Oracle just sued Google over their alternative Java implementation...how could a fork avoid this?
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#16I doubt that even the best quality fork can compete with Oracles sales machine, no matter how badly they ruin Java. Even if all the great and passionate Java developers leave to become Python programmers, Java will still be the most common language out there.
On top of that Java has the brand. Programmers may not feel positive about it but it's embedded in a lot of large organisations, many of whom will, at the management level, be perfectly happy with the Oracle acquisition. They won't see the need or the appeal to move to something else until there is a strong incentive to do so. Against that sort of entrenchment programmers will struggle to influence things a whole loa…
Users have little obligation with respect to the Java trademark. My organization can use the word "Java" internally to remind our execs that we're doing the safe, boring thing, and there's no problem if we actually deploy Lava or Fava or Cava (my pick) to our servers. As long as we don't publicly advertise that our services rely on Java technology (and who does that anymore?) we're free to call anything Java internally.
If Oracle targets an "OMG Don't Get Caught Using Fake Low-Quality Java" marketing campaign at our upper management, we'll talk to management ourselves and paint Oracle as losers who lost their grasp on everything but the trademark and no longer offer the premier, industry-standard implementation that we require.
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#17I've noticed a trend. When people sit around and talk about forking a project, it doesn't happen. When someone forks a project, there's a chance it'll take off. You can't convince someone else to fork something. If they had the drive to fork it, they wouldn't need convincing in the first place.
The bar is a lot higher for forking Java. It's not enough for a few guys to establish a track record of consistent high-quality releases. IBM and Red Hat will only give their support to an organization comparable to the one that controls Java now, which requires a lot of coordination and planning, which in turn requires some high-level decisions made inside organizations that have the personnel, money, and interest to make it happen. A single blog post doesn't accomplish much, but this is the kind of pitch that needs to be made in more detail to the right people inside IBM et al.
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#18Why fork? Just go with Scala! http://www.scala-lang.org/
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#19[deleted]
Re: Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?
#20Wouldn't a fork be running smack into a patent suit? I confess to not understanding the Java ecosystem at all , but I do know that Oracle just sued Google over their alternative Java implementation...how could a fork avoid this?
If you start with existing GPL code from Oracle, then you have an implicit patent license. But your code has to be under the GPL.
If you meet the "Technology Compatibility Kit", then you're an official Java and have a license. Unfortunately Sun was not in the habit of giving access to the TCK to people who were doing things they did not like with Java, and there is no reason to believe that Oracle will be more generous.
Google's problem was that they didn't want GPLed code (wouldn't work for the vendors who want to customize Android), and Sun wouldn't give them access to the TCK.
So anyone can create a GPLed fork, or someone who already has access to the TCK (eg IBM) can fork as long as they maintain complete compatibility with the TCK.