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How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

bloomberg.com

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Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#11

Post by outime »

sakarisson wrote: post #10
outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

Does it cover the greater Helsinki area? As a Vantaa resident, I spend over 100 euros a month on public transport. This app sounds too good to be true. What's the catch?

Yes it does (internal Vantaa) although I don’t recall if city bikes have arrived there yet (unlike Espoo). For cross-region tickets (Helsinki + Vantaa for instance) you need to pay around 100 € with the app.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#13

Post by Majestic121 »

icebraining wrote: post #9
woogle wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try Citymapper!

Thanks, I will. EDIT: Tried the web UI, doesn't seem to do that; it shows the separate PT/Cycling/Taxi routes, but none actually integrated. Plus the taxi route went over the river! (there was a car ferry once, but not for years)

The app definitely does (it can even do combos with public transport and uber), but the quality of the map might depend on the city. It is great for the Paris/Barcelona area at least

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#14

Post by Jommi »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #12

It’s amazing how this slimy advertisement hasn’t been flagged already. I’m a former Helsinki resident at this is just overhyped bs ad for another startup.

Yeah it's abit of a fluff piece, but compared to stuff that comes out in the US scene everyday it's nothing.

Can't we just once be positive? The app works, there are no lies in the article. Maybe if people in Finland were a bit more optimistic there would be more successful companies

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#15

Post by nabla9 »

outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

As a another Helsinki resident, I agree. Whim is nice experiment but not necessarily a solution with their current business model.

I think that Whim (or another Whim type service) can work if you consider the the price of the parking space.

Currently Helsinki has zoning regulations for mandatory parking places that is too high (roughly 0.8 per apartment). The cost of parking place is something like 30,000 - 70,000 euros or more. Assuming that return of capital is 8%, the cost of parking space is 100 - 400 euros per month.

If the mandatory zoning requirement is dropped, Whim style services can become profitable even in the long term.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#16

Post by illuminati1911 »

Jommi wrote: post #14
illuminati1911 wrote: post #12

It’s amazing how this slimy advertisement hasn’t been flagged already. I’m a former Helsinki resident at this is just overhyped bs ad for another startup.

Yeah it's abit of a fluff piece, but compared to stuff that comes out in the US scene everyday it's nothing. Can't we just once be positive? The app works, there are no lies in the article. Maybe if people in Finland were a bit more optimistic there would be more successful companies

There is a fine difference between being positive and self-deception. There are no direct lies, but like often in today's media they only focus on one side of the story and leave important information out.

For example what was already meantioned here that this whole thing is just initial offer subsidized with VC fund and that it will not last forever.

Second, the cheaper taxi's argument was true in a way few weeks ago when Finland still had the old taxi monopoly regulation going on. Now that the market is open, there are a lot of options and some probably even cheaper than this. Also the article doesn¨t mention that you need to use special Whim-supported taxi's which are very limited. In reality you are most likely not going to get your "cheap taxi ride" when ever you need it.

Third, Whim has some kind of contract and/or legal problem with the Helsinki Public Transit Authority and while regular users can just use the public transit and keep the traffic card in their pocket, Whim users have to buy individual tickets each time.

And the list goes on...

I like the idea of the company and idea of revolutionising public transit, but these kind of BS advertisement which are made to look like news is not the way to go.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#17

Post by mattlondon »

Its the availability that is the killer for these sorts of services, as one of the people interviewed in the article says.

I don't see how these services can compare with a private car without totally saturating the neighborhood with lots of idle vehicles sitting around to cover the spikes in demand without suffering infuriating unavailability when you need to get somewhere. Its already annoying seeing all the dock-less bikes and stuff left all over the streets - it'll be much worse when they are dumping cars as well as bikes/scooters.

Having to wait 5+ minutes for Uber to accept your ride and then arrive (complete with the little car icon doing seemingly pointless loop-the-loops on the map) while you are left impatiently tapping your foot is fine every now and then. But having to do that everytime I want to get anywhere? Really? Its not for me - I value having a car sitting idle just so that it is immediately ready for me to use at the precise moment I need it so I can just jump in an go.

Would you sell your car and rely on a service where they might one day just not have any drivers available? I am sure many of us have been in situations pre-ride-hailing apps where we'd be on a night out and call someone for a cab only to be told there is a 2+ hour waiting list. Better start walking home then I guess ...

One-way trips or if I am drunk is where ride-hailing shines - I dont think it'll ever replace car ownership for anyone apart from those people living in the absolute centre of cities who only need to get to work and bars (and in those situations walking is a viable option if you have the time)

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#18

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Jommi wrote: post #14
illuminati1911 wrote: post #12

It’s amazing how this slimy advertisement hasn’t been flagged already. I’m a former Helsinki resident at this is just overhyped bs ad for another startup.

Yeah it's abit of a fluff piece, but compared to stuff that comes out in the US scene everyday it's nothing. Can't we just once be positive? The app works, there are no lies in the article. Maybe if people in Finland were a bit more optimistic there would be more successful companies

This is the part where I write some tone deaf response that is obviously based on the assumption that SillyValley(TM) is the center of the universe and suggest that European companies should pay their devs more. /s

I generally agree with you. This is an obvious fluff piece but that's most articles around here. People just seem to turn a blind eye when it's a company from wherever they're from.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#19

Post by Grue3 »

icebraining wrote: post #9
woogle wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try Citymapper!

Thanks, I will. EDIT: Tried the web UI, doesn't seem to do that; it shows the separate PT/Cycling/Taxi routes, but none actually integrated. Plus the taxi route went over the river! (there was a car ferry once, but not for years)

I've seen it do combined subway/Uber routes in Moscow.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#20

Post by ihaveajob »

mattlondon wrote: post #17

Its the availability that is the killer for these sorts of services, as one of the people interviewed in the article says. I don't see how these services can compare with a private car without totally saturating the neighborhood with lots of idle vehicles sitting around to cover the spikes in demand without suffering infuriating unavailability when you need to get somewhere. Its already annoying seeing all the dock-l…

On the flip side, consider the time you spend looking for parking. Depending on where you live, that's also a big time sink. I'd rather be checking Twitter on the sidewalk than cursing the parking gods looping around, but that's just me.
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