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Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

nature.com

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Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#11

Post by pokemongoaway »

vancan1ty wrote: post #6
faitswulff wrote: post #2

I wonder how much of the data generated isn't true of non-Chinese people. NPR goes into detail on why diverse clinical trials are necessary: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/12/16/4596667... > The blood thinner clopidogrel, or Plavix, doesn't work in the 75 percent of Pacific Islanders whose bodies don't produce the enzyme required to activate the drug. For them, taking the medication is like taking a p…

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Who brainwashed you bro? Are you trying to say ethnicity doesn't exist? There won't be genetic differences (and physical non-genetic differences) between different groups? This is how far leftist propaganda has gone :( EDIT: and typical that I get downvoted without reason for merely suggesting that it is silly to claim that ethnicity doesn't exist (which is how the parent is using the word 'race').

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#12

Post by obviousthowaway »

vancan1ty wrote: post #6
faitswulff wrote: post #2

I wonder how much of the data generated isn't true of non-Chinese people. NPR goes into detail on why diverse clinical trials are necessary: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/12/16/4596667... > The blood thinner clopidogrel, or Plavix, doesn't work in the 75 percent of Pacific Islanders whose bodies don't produce the enzyme required to activate the drug. For them, taking the medication is like taking a p…

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Good luck telling Americans Race doesn't exist!

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#13

Post by ssdd »

sparrish wrote: post #3

"The cohort’s leaders recruit babies born at the Guangzhou Women and Children’s Medical Center. Only families planning to live in the southern Chinese city for a long time have been recruited" Limited ethnic and geographical selection of participants means this 'slew' of data will likely be less valuable than this article lets on. Helpful to that immediate area? yes.

Why is this data such a big deal? Didn't US should already have enough medical data of its citizens for study?

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#14

Post by klenwell »

padobson wrote: post #10
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get what you are trying to claim here. There are well known differences between races (e.g. lactose tolerance) that are minor but medically relevant.

I think OP is trying to say something like, "The variance between groups is less than the variance among them"

And that the racial categories used politically and socially don't always map cleanly to genetic categories used by scientists (thus "75 percent of Pacific Islanders" rather than 100%).

But in some (carefully defined) cases they get close.

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#15

Post by entee »

vancan1ty wrote: post #6
faitswulff wrote: post #2

I wonder how much of the data generated isn't true of non-Chinese people. NPR goes into detail on why diverse clinical trials are necessary: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/12/16/4596667... > The blood thinner clopidogrel, or Plavix, doesn't work in the 75 percent of Pacific Islanders whose bodies don't produce the enzyme required to activate the drug. For them, taking the medication is like taking a p…

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europe and cattle-herding populations) and alcohol dehydrogenase (also know as Alcohol Flush Reaction). There are many others and we're likely to find many more.

Medically important genetic differences between ethnicities exist, but it's important to note the limits of this analysis. Usually these are fairly low-level traits, i.e. different enzyme activity, and it's critical not not over-extend the logic to more complex emergent traits such as intelligence or others where clean biochemical links are suspect. Saying a certain set of constraints changed the way certain enzymes work in a given population is not the same as saying this group is better than another group.

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#16

Post by freeone3000 »

ssdd wrote: post #13
sparrish wrote: post #3

"The cohort’s leaders recruit babies born at the Guangzhou Women and Children’s Medical Center. Only families planning to live in the southern Chinese city for a long time have been recruited" Limited ethnic and geographical selection of participants means this 'slew' of data will likely be less valuable than this article lets on. Helpful to that immediate area? yes.

Why is this data such a big deal? Didn't US should already have enough medical data of its citizens for study?

They're tracking from birth, and the data is public.

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#17

Post by jerf »

entee wrote: post #15
vancan1ty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europ…

"it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance."

It's just plain true.

"While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups"

That line is for the big traits, like intelligence, strength, etc. Those are made up of many, many genes, and I've even seen a couple of recent articles that suggest the answer to the question "which genes affect intelligence?" may well be "all of them". When it comes to specific genes, though, the incidences can be correlated very strongly to ethnicities/races.

If you're having trouble squaring that with your political pieties, bear in mind that it's actually all correlations, not causations. The real cause of the genes an individual has is their literal ancestry (i.e., not their "race" but their exact ancestry, the exact humans and indeed even the exact genes carried by the relevant eggs and sperms), and it isn't that surprising that that correlates strongly with something else that is very tied to ancestry. But really, it's a separate process.

There is a de-novo genetic mutation my wife has. She didn't get it from either of her parents. (You know what I mean.) The races of all the individuals involved have nothing to do with the fact that one of our children also has it and one does not.

It's sort of important that we not freak out about "races" showing up in medicine; is it more important that people get correct medical treatment and live better lives and at times just plain live even if we can only use a crude tool for a while, or that our particular delicate political beliefs be left unchallenged? I know which I choose.

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#18

Post by irrational »

entee wrote: post #15
vancan1ty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europ…

Are you sure you mean ethnicity? My understanding is ethnicity refers to things like language, perhaps nationality, regional culture, etc. I have friends who have the same ethnicity as myself: we speak the same language, eat the same foods, share the same culture, etc. but 100% of their ancestors up to their parents are from Samoa. So, it would seem that they would be affected by medical things that are specific to Pacific Islanders even though their ethnicity is not Pacific Islander.

Re: Gigantic study of Chinese babies yields slew of health data

#19

Post by lgessler »

entee wrote: post #15
vancan1ty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europ…

> Race is often shorthand for ethnicity

Huh? In medical contexts I've always understood race as a person's genetic background and ethnicity as a person's cultural background. The two often don't align as many might expect: an adopted child, for example, could be racially South Asian but ethnically French because they speak French, enjoy French food and culture, perceive their self as French, etc.

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