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John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

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Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#11

Post by throwawayjava »

toyg wrote: post #7

The "ephemeralness" of the internet is still a huge, huge problem. We've only started to scratch the surface of the issue, and between censorship, "right to be forgotten" and linkrot, it's already a complete shitshow. We need a distributed and censorship-resistant conservancy system, because the Wayback Machine can only do so much (and it can trivially be censored). Unfortunately, it's not a money-making enterprise.

> We need a distributed and censorship-resistant conservancy system, because the Wayback Machine can only do so much (and it can trivially be censored). Unfortunately, it's not a money-making enterprise.

Color me skeptical, but it seems like such a system would eventually need to seek out a business model and would turn into mugshotsonline.us writ large. Or "toxic yelp reviews of dubious origin" but for humans instead of businesses. And with all the perverse incentives.

Censorship is bad, but profit-motivated society-wide forever-grudges against people in no significant position of power is also bad.

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#12

Post by PaulRobinson »

Tharkun wrote: post #8
lavazon wrote: post #4

Is John Oliver any more important than all the other things that China has banned? Or is this just something that happens to be popular which creates outrage even when it's not nearly as bad as other things that China censors?

I guess a lot of people enjoy his style of "humour" where he randomly insults people, countries or cultures for no apparent reason.

If you'd watched the segment, you'd realise there was a reason for it.

Specifically he used the segment to point out that Xi Jinping has more power and influence than almost anybody in China's history, that a personality cult has started to form around him, and that he is using that power in ways that has a wide range of long-term profound domestic and international consequences, including America's place in the World and perhaps even democracy's.

Yes, he used comedy. Yes, he referenced Winnie the Pooh and Xi Jinping's hatred of being likened to him. It's an entertainment show. The fact it is a comedy entertainment show doesn't make the point he makes any less true.

He had a point. He made it. China reacted to the point, not because it was a "random insult", but because if Chinese people watched that segment they may start to raise questions.

He was censored for the same reason that many other things questioning China's authoritarianism are banned from comments like this one I'm making here all the way through to many of the images at the top of this google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=tiananmen+square

Further, Oliver had used his show to make points about Trump, Obama, veterans, affordable healthcare, TV evangelists and a whole host of other social affairs using comedy to tell a story that would be hard to make entertaining using any other device. What exactly is your problem with that?

Just because you don't like his style of humour does not mean he is "randomly insulting people, countries or cultures for no apparent reason".

Also: next time, before throwing statements like that around, question whether you're doing it yourself. What _exactly_ were you hoping to achieve with this comment?

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#13

Post by Tharkun »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #12
Tharkun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess a lot of people enjoy his style of "humour" where he randomly insults people, countries or cultures for no apparent reason.

If you'd watched the segment, you'd realise there was a reason for it. Specifically he used the segment to point out that Xi Jinping has more power and influence than almost anybody in China's history, that a personality cult has started to form around him, and that he is using that power in ways that has a wide range of long-term profound domestic and international consequences, including America's place in the Worl…

> If you'd watched the segment, you'd realise there was a reason for it.

I did watch the segment. And pretty much every other episode of his show. And while the serious bits are usually quite interesting and well thought-out, the "funny" insulting bits are ridiculous and childish. Call them humour if you will, but they don't sit well with my sense of humour.

But yes, he does randomly insult people, countries and cultures for no apparent reason. You assumed, incorrectly, that I was talking about China or Xi.

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#15

Post by rmorey »

toyg wrote: post #7

The "ephemeralness" of the internet is still a huge, huge problem. We've only started to scratch the surface of the issue, and between censorship, "right to be forgotten" and linkrot, it's already a complete shitshow. We need a distributed and censorship-resistant conservancy system, because the Wayback Machine can only do so much (and it can trivially be censored). Unfortunately, it's not a money-making enterprise.

https://ipfs.io

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#16

Post by Daishiman »

stcredzero wrote: post #10
DINKDINK wrote: post #2

The Ministry of Truth has no record of one "John Oliver"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole

[flagged]

No, it was an observation against authoritarianism. You do know that Orwell was, above all, anti-fascist and anti-Stalinist right?

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#17

Post by Covzire »

stcredzero wrote: post #10
DINKDINK wrote: post #2

The Ministry of Truth has no record of one "John Oliver"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole

[flagged]

I Think Orwell's point about socialism was far more pointed then that. Orwell in his travels, written partly about in "The road to Wigan Pier" partly illustrated the recurring theme we see in society where people (who will inevitiably rise to power, unless stopped) will use socialism not as a tool for lifting everyone up but explicitly to tear their perceived enemies down, something that has never resulted in a better society by any metric unless "well at least everyone is miserable" is your primary goal.

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#19

Post by PaulRobinson »

Tharkun wrote: post #13
PaulRobinson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd watched the segment, you'd realise there was a reason for it. Specifically he used the segment to point out that Xi Jinping has more power and influence than almost anybody in China's history, that a personality cult has started to form around him, and that he is using that power in ways that has a wide range of long-term profound domestic and international consequences, including America's place in the Worl…

> If you'd watched the segment, you'd realise there was a reason for it. I did watch the segment. And pretty much every other episode of his show. And while the serious bits are usually quite interesting and well thought-out, the "funny" insulting bits are ridiculous and childish. Call them humour if you will, but they don't sit well with my sense of humour. But yes, he does randomly insult people, countries and cult…

I don't believe a word you wrote in that first paragraph, and completely disagree with your assertion in the second for reasons I've already given that you've chosen to ignore.

There is no segment he's done where the insult is purposeless and random. Ever.

I'm still curious what you were hoping to achieve with your own random and purposeless sleight, but let's move on. Have a great day.

Re: John Oliver is erased from Chinese internet following segment on China

#20

Post by zem »

toyg wrote: post #7

The "ephemeralness" of the internet is still a huge, huge problem. We've only started to scratch the surface of the issue, and between censorship, "right to be forgotten" and linkrot, it's already a complete shitshow. We need a distributed and censorship-resistant conservancy system, because the Wayback Machine can only do so much (and it can trivially be censored). Unfortunately, it's not a money-making enterprise.

"ephemerality" is the common noun form, though "ephemeralness" is in the dictionary too.
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