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Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

nytimes.com

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Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#11

Post by jogjayr »

I can't help but think that college admissions based solely on test scores (as done in India, Russia, maybe China?), and nothing else, might be the least unfair way to judge applicants.

Every admission system is unfair in some way but tests are a yardstick everyone understands and can optimize for. In India they publicly post the list of admitted students and their marks. Richer students may benefit from higher-quality test coaching but a) that happens today anyway and b) the Internet will ensure rapid dissemination of test-prep strategies for cheap or free

The other downside is it might give you a more, for lack of a better word, boring student body at the higher levels. Fewer non-academic interests and achievements because every bit of spare time in high school was spent on studying.

I thought the American system sounded better when I was a high-schooler in India with not good but not great marks ("surely they'd recognize my specialness despite my lower scores, even if these hidebound colleges in India won't!") but it does leave more room for implicit bias.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#12

Post by pishpash »

poster123 wrote: post #5

There may be racial differences in personality, but it is implausible that as the proportion of Asians in the high-achieving student population rises, their personalities get just worse enough that the fraction of Asian students at Harvard stays about the same. Harvard admits this when it says that what brings the Asian fraction down to 18% is "demographic". Elite universities are often accusing the broader society o…

Institutions like Harvard play the same role for the aristocratic elites as Trump does for his base: keep things more or less the same as the good old days.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#13

Post by uncletaco »

ardent_uno wrote: post #2

>"[Harvard] lashed out at the founder of Students for Fair Admissions, Edward Blum, accusing him of using Harvard in an effort to orchestrate a challenge to race-conscious admissions that would go to the Supreme Court." I feel that in 100 years we will look back on quotes like this and shake our heads at institutions like Harvard actually defending "race conscious admissions". Reward people that do well and hold them…

> Reward people that do well and hold them up as examples for other people to follow.

FTFY

Also, I think that quote speaks more to what Edward Blum is trying to do. Blum wants to challenge "race-conscious admissions" at the level of the Supreme Court. But Harvard will probably try to prove that being "race-conscious" is only a small part of their admissions process, and not a make or break aspect of a candidate's application.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#14

Post by danielfoster »

"Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them, according to Prof. Arcidiacono."

I can't imagine the feeling of working so hard through elementary school, middle school, and high school to get into an Ivy League school, only for an admissions panel to declare me "low in personality" or too introverted.

Harvard's admission criteria seem heavily based on outdated stereotypes of what makes an individual successful. I question if Ivy League schools are choosing the best applicants and by extension, how much prestige Ivy League degrees really deserve.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#15

Post by xapata »

ganzuul wrote: post #4

Why does a university have a personality test?

Many organizations create processes that are essentially random number generators. It allows bureaucrats to insert their personal preferences under a veneer of technocracy. Hang out at a corporate budget allocation meeting sometime.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#16

Post by ed_balls »

_jal wrote: post #9
ganzuul wrote: post #4

Why does a university have a personality test?

Because they want something that provides a subjective element for making decisions. Admissions is high-stakes for everyone, including Harvard. Having some opaque, non-mechanical criteria lets them pick and choose without giving as much of a lever to lawyers.

But why they need it?

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#17

Post by Nimitz14 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #7
ganzuul wrote: post #4

Why does a university have a personality test?

That's how you maintain a certain reputation, create a harmonious atmosphere where nobody who would rock the boat gets in.

Seems to me they're doing it to achieve the opposite effect (Asians are stereotypically the most docile).

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#20

Post by baybal2 »

I wonder if HN news algo reads my mind. In another news thread, I just pulled out the fact that Xiaomi electronics makes overwhelmingly superior gadgetry, yet can't break through the stigma of Asian "uncoolness"

Situation for them is pretty much as it was with Toyota in its first decade in US, and them being greatly puzzled why Americans were so bent on buying Buicks over "twice as cheap, and twice as better" Corollas, and had total nil appetite for the supreme Corona.

To authors of comments in line of "being a minority is actually a boon, statistics wise" I can say this: on the other side of "social invisibility" lies life of being "trophy" talent/socialite acquaintance/romantic partner, and, the most dreaded one, the life of diversity hire.

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