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Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

openculture.com

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Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#11

Post by oh_sigh »

Gargoyle wrote: post #3
Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

I had a Native American friend who asked me for help with digitizing cassette tapes of certain ceremonies. I transferred them, cleaned them up a bit, and burned audio cds for him. I then deleted all my own copies as he requested. He asked that since the ceremonies were for his people that I not keep them for myself, and I respected that.

That's great, but digitization and CDs are for our people. Why is he coopting our culture but won't share a free, non-material copy of his own?

For a non-snarky response: The difference between your scenario and the one from the article is that with yours, you were just performing a service for your friend, who presumably owned the recordings. In the article's case, the recordings are owned and created by UC Berkeley, which is a publicly funded learning institution.

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#12

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

Concern over the "intellectual property" of indigenous people within linguistics is mainly a North American thing, and the bureaucracy put in place to ensure that you follow all these guidelines is astounding. Unfortunately, North American academics have been pushing for these ethics rules to extend to all parts of the globe, even in places where the relationship between foreign scholars and local people is not the same as for parts of native North America.

I have done linguistics fieldwork among some indigenous people elsewhere in the world under a European university. There was no requirement to appear before an ethics board before or after. There was no requirement to credit my native informants at all costs – considering that the country in question was rather repressive of these minority peoples, my informants generally did not want it to be publicly known that they were interacting with foreigners. Once I had the data, it was straightforward to publish it. I would hate to see that ease in my particular subfield disappear because of historical-political disputes elsewhere.

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#13

Post by k3d »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12
Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

Concern over the "intellectual property" of indigenous people within linguistics is mainly a North American thing, and the bureaucracy put in place to ensure that you follow all these guidelines is astounding. Unfortunately, North American academics have been pushing for these ethics rules to extend to all parts of the globe, even in places where the relationship between foreign scholars and local people is not the s…

why are you trying to apply your irrelevant experiences with other groups even as you complain about americans doing so to you?

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#14

Post by pdabbadabba »

Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

I get this reaction. But it's worth remembering that, to a great extent, today's sensitivities are reactions to extremely callous treatment of native peoples in the past--including by scientists and other researchers (such as unauthorized exhumations for archaeological study). I also wouldn't conflate the researchers' willingness to allow the descendants of these people to control the recordings with stinginess on the part of those descendants in sharing them with the world.

"Enlightenment" likely has nothing to do with it.

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#15

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

k3d wrote: post #13
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concern over the "intellectual property" of indigenous people within linguistics is mainly a North American thing, and the bureaucracy put in place to ensure that you follow all these guidelines is astounding. Unfortunately, North American academics have been pushing for these ethics rules to extend to all parts of the globe, even in places where the relationship between foreign scholars and local people is not the s…

why are you trying to apply your irrelevant experiences with other groups even as you complain about americans doing so to you?

How is irrelevant to point out that there is disagreement within the academic community about the standards that the OP expresses disappointment with?

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#16

Post by weeksie »

japhyr wrote: post #7
Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

I live in southeast Alaska, and it's a pretty interesting place to live culturally. Alaska Native people were hurt deeply by contact with outsiders. For those unfamiliar with the history, it was a series of events. First, contact brought diseases that native people had limited immunity to. Smallpox, influenza, and tuberculosis killed on the order of 70% of the population of many villages in a single generation. Then…

Funny. I grew up in Cordova and though I'm not Native, my step brother and my half sister are. I wonder how different things are up there these days because I never got the impression that Natives were protective of their stories and traditions in the way that you mention.

Then again, I moved away 20 years ago and the last time I visited was five years back. Things might have shifted in the intervening two decades, or perhaps I just wasn't as attuned to that as a 21 year old kid ;)

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#17

Post by oconnor663 »

Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

There are a lot of tradeoffs involved in deciding who is and isn't allowed to listen to something, and I want to hear about them. But I think starting off by putting the concept in scare quotes is going to poison the whole thread.

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#18

Post by sgt101 »

weeksie wrote: post #16
japhyr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in southeast Alaska, and it's a pretty interesting place to live culturally. Alaska Native people were hurt deeply by contact with outsiders. For those unfamiliar with the history, it was a series of events. First, contact brought diseases that native people had limited immunity to. Smallpox, influenza, and tuberculosis killed on the order of 70% of the population of many villages in a single generation. Then…

Funny. I grew up in Cordova and though I'm not Native, my step brother and my half sister are. I wonder how different things are up there these days because I never got the impression that Natives were protective of their stories and traditions in the way that you mention. Then again, I moved away 20 years ago and the last time I visited was five years back. Things might have shifted in the intervening two decades, o…

I suppose that the idea of Native is a homogenisation of many separate cultures and identities. Perhaps some of the peoples feel that their traditions are to be shared, and others do not?

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#19

Post by civilitty »

neolefty wrote: post #4
Gargoyle wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a Native American friend who asked me for help with digitizing cassette tapes of certain ceremonies. I transferred them, cleaned them up a bit, and burned audio cds for him. I then deleted all my own copies as he requested. He asked that since the ceremonies were for his people that I not keep them for myself, and I respected that.

Paraphrases of what I've heard from Native American friends: My gift to you is this song. I cannot sing that song because it was not given to me. Intellectual property is apparently an ancient social construct!

It's not about intellectual property, it's an "it's the thought that counts" type of thing that is hard to explain to outsiders. In several cultures, singing someone a song is a very personal act of gift giving in which the singer creates beautiful sound just for the listener(s) - it is as much an expression of the relationship between them as it is about music or poetry. That latter bit is often lost in developed countries that have established musical industries instead of a vast array of amateur bards.

Just like it is considered inappropriate to give away something that was a gift to you in many cultures, in some it is considered bad form to appropriate someone's expression of emotion unless you were invited to by the singer.

Re: Recovery of Lost Indigenous Languages by Optical Scanning of Old Wax Cylinders

#20

Post by VirtualAirwaves »

Aloha wrote: post #2

"Due to the culturally sensitive material of the content on these cylinders, and out of respect for the contemporary descendants of many of the performers on the recordings, access to the majority of the audio being digitized is currently restricted." I'd like to learn more about the cultures of the peoples in this country who came before me - but I am apparently not 'enlightened' enough to experience their words.

There may be a concept of religious prayers and songs not being used in a context that's disrespectful of them.
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