Attitudes matter in an aging world • Hacker News Board

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#11

Post by onion2k » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:06 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #10

onion2k wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes correlation isn't causation, but if we just say "correlation =/= causation" every time something happens we'll never discover anything. If two things are correlated it's at least worth investigating further, and quite often turns out to be a causal link.

I'm reasonably sure that the set of things that are correlated is much, much larger than the set of things that have a causal relationship. Check for example http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

The number of things that aren't correlated is waaaaaaay bigger. It's still worth investigating when there's a possible link.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#12

Post by Angostura » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:14 AM UTC

janwillemb wrote: post #9

"people who have a positive attitude about getting older, live longer" The conclusion might as well be the other way round: people who have health problems when getting older are more likely to have a negative attitude about getting older and will probably die at a younger age than people without health issues.

Except there's no suggestion that the people who were thinking negatively about old age actually had worse health at that stage.

The headline is rather misleading, the study suggested that where older people are more respected in a society, they tend to live longer.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#13

Post by AznHisoka » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #7

randyrand wrote: post #4

Correlation =/= causation. Can't be said often enough.

Sometimes correlation isn't causation, but if we just say "correlation =/= causation" every time something happens we'll never discover anything. If two things are correlated it's at least worth investigating further, and quite often turns out to be a causal link.

And its definitely worth examining if there is a rational, simple hypothesis that implies a relationship between the two. Here, that is clearly the case: could what you think about something impact your health? It doesnt seem like such a stretch to believe so (see placebos, etc)

On the other hand, if you found a correlation between butter exports in India and mortality rates, you probably shouldnt dig further into whether there’s a causation relationship. It fails the Occam’s Razor test missrably.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#14

Post by kerrsclyde » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:35 AM UTC

I think one of the best ways to maintain youth and health in your advancing years is to continue to work.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#15

Post by bogle » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

newnewpdro wrote: post #6

I wish more people would continue living youthfully into adulthood, and continue to do so for as long as possible, with the limits of old age being an emergent phenomenon forced onto them rather than something they unwittingly eagerly pursued through laziness and boredom. If you ride a bicycle every day, barring some injury forcing a prolonged break, you'll continue to be able to deep into old age. Anything we practi…

There was a good article in The Guardian last week[1] about Laird Hamilton the surfer and his older pal Don who at 83 still rides his mountain bike and surfs his paddle board. Laird Hamilton is an exceptional guy but Don shows what we could all attempt with a good attitude.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17301633

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#16

Post by kaybe » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

newnewpdro wrote: post #6

I wish more people would continue living youthfully into adulthood, and continue to do so for as long as possible, with the limits of old age being an emergent phenomenon forced onto them rather than something they unwittingly eagerly pursued through laziness and boredom. If you ride a bicycle every day, barring some injury forcing a prolonged break, you'll continue to be able to deep into old age. Anything we practi…

I wish there were more free playgrounds that can also be used by adults, spread around like the ones for kids. I also like ropeways, climbing high, swings etc. Instead adults get boring repetive-movement fitness equipment.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#17

Post by gaius » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

kerrsclyde wrote: post #14

I think one of the best ways to maintain youth and health in your advancing years is to continue to work.

maintain youth and health in your advancing years is to continue to work.

Define “work”. Manual labour? Sitting in an office? Both have negative health impacts. The sort of work that prolongs quality of life is only a subset of the work there is economic demand for. A job which is active but not strenuous, basically. Most jobs are either physically hard work or mainly sedentary, with not much in between.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#18

Post by KozmoNau7 » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 10:04 AM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #16

newnewpdro wrote: post #6

I wish more people would continue living youthfully into adulthood, and continue to do so for as long as possible, with the limits of old age being an emergent phenomenon forced onto them rather than something they unwittingly eagerly pursued through laziness and boredom. If you ride a bicycle every day, barring some injury forcing a prolonged break, you'll continue to be able to deep into old age. Anything we practi…

I wish there were more free playgrounds that can also be used by adults, spread around like the ones for kids. I also like ropeways, climbing high, swings etc. Instead adults get boring repetive-movement fitness equipment.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but there is outdoor "gym" gear in plenty of places where I live, free to use for anyone. Including monkey bars and such.

As for specifically fitness as an activity, there is plenty of types of exercise that favor body weight exercises and free weights over machines. Crossfit is obviously the big trendy one, but there are many other types out there.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#19

Post by GoToRO » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 10:23 AM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #4

Correlation =/= causation. Can't be said often enough.

But... correlation includes causation so if you want to find the causation you should do a quick test to see if you have correlation. Because is cheaper. THIS can't be said often enough. What you said I heard a ton of.

Re: Attitudes matter in an aging world

#20

Post by tw1010 » Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 11:45 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #12

janwillemb wrote: post #9

"people who have a positive attitude about getting older, live longer" The conclusion might as well be the other way round: people who have health problems when getting older are more likely to have a negative attitude about getting older and will probably die at a younger age than people without health issues.

Except there's no suggestion that the people who were thinking negatively about old age actually had worse health at that stage. The headline is rather misleading, the study suggested that where older people are more respected in a society, they tend to live longer.

But what if countries with a better attitude towards the elderly are also correlated with a higher likelihood of being ok with their taxes going to health care for the old? It doesn't necessarily have to do with respect.