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GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

amasad.me

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Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#11

Post by Boulth »

amasad wrote: post #4
grosjona wrote: post #3

>> At this point, we've heard enough "rags to riches" stories in programming that it becomes difficult to dismiss this as simply "survivorship bias". I like the rest of the article but this statement is disturbing. There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity. Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity.

How so? Programming is unprecedented in it's power for upwards class mobility. We're just scratching the surface. But it's the only thing we have that: a) doesn't require a lot of resources to make a meaningful contributions (access to a computer and the internet) that could land you a really good job. b) it's probably the only industry that doesn't requires formal education. Case in point, only one person at my comp…

> it's probably the only industry that doesn't requires formal education.

I think this is because large majority of tasks do not require formal education (proverbial CRUDs etc.). And that's OK.

For the record I've got a master degree in CS but I can't remember last time I had to utilize that knowledge. Hobby projects? Sure. But not daily work.

Great article by the way! I was also on the side of "it's hard to do PRs and github as resume is a bad idea" but it turns out that it's surprisingly easy to start and the experience of working with people that have similar interests is really fun!

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#12

Post by sdoering »

amasad wrote: post #4
grosjona wrote: post #3

>> At this point, we've heard enough "rags to riches" stories in programming that it becomes difficult to dismiss this as simply "survivorship bias". I like the rest of the article but this statement is disturbing. There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity. Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity.

How so? Programming is unprecedented in it's power for upwards class mobility. We're just scratching the surface. But it's the only thing we have that: a) doesn't require a lot of resources to make a meaningful contributions (access to a computer and the internet) that could land you a really good job. b) it's probably the only industry that doesn't requires formal education. Case in point, only one person at my comp…

On the other hand, if you have two shitty jobs to make ends meet, how to program and contribute to OSS after that?

There are cases. But most probably are survivorship bias.

I would bet, most current IT professionals have a at least lower middle class background.

If I take a look at my company, that at last rings true. Not sure about the US, though.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#13

Post by switch007 »

The same underprivileged who feel there is no option but to sign a contract assigning all IP to their employer, which at best dissuades them from doing much open source, and at worst, precludes them from doing any coding which isn't for their employer? (I'm talking about the world beyond California, here)

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#14

Post by onion2k »

vezycash wrote: post #8
grosjona wrote: post #3

>> At this point, we've heard enough "rags to riches" stories in programming that it becomes difficult to dismiss this as simply "survivorship bias". I like the rest of the article but this statement is disturbing. There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity. Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity.

>There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity Popularity isn't the real issue - it's, "What can you do?" or, "Show me what you've done." When interviewers say, "Tell me about yourself," from my own experience, they mean - what can you do? Not hobbies. Photographers and designers create portfolio websites to get clients (instragram too). Github or OSS provides th…

If I go to a doctor I don't look at the work they do all day and then ask about what medicine they practise at home in their spare time.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#15

Post by albertgoeswoof »

sanxiyn wrote: post #7
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #2

The author makes a valid point, however the pushback against using OSS as an important hiring signal, is that most people are not privileged with enough spare time to work on OSS outside of their day job. Eg if you have a family, long commute etc. And if they already are an excellent programmer and hitting all expectations, why should they do this? In fact, an employee who’s spending 5-6 hours/day on side projects mi…

Where is pushback against using degrees as an important hiring signal, given many people are not privileged with enough money to go to the university? Where?

Literally this article, and all the other comments and posts about how useless a computer science degree is for hiring, and how we should all go to boot camps. I actually have a comp sci degree (and learned a tonne) but I know former classmates who skipped through without learning to program properly at all.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#16

Post by sintaxi »

onion2k wrote: post #10

The point people are making about using GitHub profiles for hiring is that it ignores great developers who don't write code outside of their job (that might be due to other interests, family responsibilities, a second job, whatever). The fact this guy is in a position to write code in his spare time just means he's not in that group, and the fact his open source work on Github specifically landed him a job he wanted…

Privilege is what is UNEARNED and there is no way to qualify if those with open source contributions are more privileged than others. The very opposite could be true. The privileged can bounce from well paying job to the next with no OSS contributions while the underprivileged have to "show their value" in the harsh environment of open source.

You're constructing the viewpoint you want others to see with no data or facts to back it up.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#17

Post by sanxiyn »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #15
sanxiyn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is pushback against using degrees as an important hiring signal, given many people are not privileged with enough money to go to the university? Where?

Literally this article, and all the other comments and posts about how useless a computer science degree is for hiring, and how we should all go to boot camps. I actually have a comp sci degree (and learned a tonne) but I know former classmates who skipped through without learning to program properly at all.

Still, I confidently bet someone without GitHub profile has easier time in hiring market than someone without a degree.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#18

Post by LaRakel »

sanxiyn wrote: post #9
grosjona wrote: post #3

>> At this point, we've heard enough "rags to riches" stories in programming that it becomes difficult to dismiss this as simply "survivorship bias". I like the rest of the article but this statement is disturbing. There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity. Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity.

> Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity. Eh, it definitely is correlated. Maybe you wanted to say correlation is not perfect?

It's more that there a lot more factors than quality, like there being no competing projects or it being useful to a lot of people. Writing a quality project only gives it better odds than if the same thing was written shoddily.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#19

Post by Nekorosu »

sanxiyn wrote: post #6

As someone without a degree who got the first job based on open source work, this rings true.

It's anecdotal evidence. I don't have a degree and I don't contribute to open source because I have something better to do in my free time. Still, I have a decent developer job.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#20

Post by vezycash »

onion2k wrote: post #10

The point people are making about using GitHub profiles for hiring is that it ignores great developers who don't write code outside of their job (that might be due to other interests, family responsibilities, a second job, whatever). The fact this guy is in a position to write code in his spare time just means he's not in that group, and the fact his open source work on Github specifically landed him a job he wanted…

I think a good way to end the debate on Github profiles is this:

Github profiles are advertisement for programmers.

Advertising requires resources - time, money, creativity and commitment and not every business is ready to pay to price. Sometimes advertising pays off, some times it doesn't.

No police arrests a business owner for not advertising. Same with github profiles. Decide to have one, contribute a little, much or nothing at all. It's a matter of preference.

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