Whats so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018
Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
11–20 of 69 posts
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#12Visit any library in Helsinki at any time and you'll discover that there are more librarians than customers. And there lies the problem, those hundreds of useless people have considerable political power, so they now try to "develop" this now worthless institution to something else.
Please tell us a bit about you, so that we can have a discussion with subsequent vote whether you are a useful person.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#13Whats so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018
> "What's so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018"
I'm going to repeat something I've said previously on Hacker News: people underestimate how much information in books isn't online and just how much useful information is still tied up in those books. Many of us assume everything is mostly online and so it's our first port of call for any research or knowledge gathering.
A few years ago I was researching the Swiss architect Le Corbusier. I wanted to find out about his famous housing complex called Unité d'habitation (Housing Unit) first built in Marseille in France. I started my research online looking for floorplans and commentary or critques. I found very little (there is a lot more available online today, but not when I was looking).
Consider that Le Corbusier is one of the most famous architects of the 20th century so this was a surprise. Eventually, I did find what I was looking for by...(yes, you guessed it) going to the library and visiting an architecture exhibition. I ended up scanning some floorplans from a book (and putting them online). From the exhibition, I came across a video of Corbusier talking about the Unité d'habitation - a great find, and I ended up transcribing sections of that interview. None of this information was available on the web.
It's very easy to fall into the belief that the information you find online is likely to be the best or most recent information available on that topic - so the thought of further offline research at a library never crosses your mind. But there is a huge amount of information and knowledge found in books that has never made it online. If you never go to the library, you won't realise what you're missing.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Facebook is a more efficient way to spread especially false information.
The exact same books are available electronically nowadays, and are likely to be more up to date than a paper version. Building a library won't make anyone stop reading facebook drivel.
Many of the older books are not digitised and probably never will be. And reading poorly scanned PDFs on a computer screen sucks. Some of the new books are released in paper only as well. Non-tech books don't get more or less up to date. In fact, paper books are great that they can't be easily edited.
Of course "build it and they'll come" doesn't work. But if we could get more people to come to libraries, it'd be awesome in all sorts of ways. And without building it, nobody will even have a chance to come.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Facebook is a more efficient way to spread especially false information.
The exact same books are available electronically nowadays, and are likely to be more up to date than a paper version. Building a library won't make anyone stop reading facebook drivel.
Only if you know how to pirate the book, have internet and are willing to do the pirating. Now I afford to buy ebooks or audio books but as a student I could not buy the c++ gaming programming book, the Linux books were not in libraries and I did not had internet. Even if you afford to buy a book or tow a month, if you have more free time you can get more books from the library, start reading them, see if you like them or not, return them and get other ones.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#16Whats so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018
Seems like an article from a paper romanticist, and they aren't extinct yet. Anyhow, here in Finland the libraries are not just for paper-based information storage/dispersion, but common places for all kinds of public information/technology needs, like (3D) printing, copying or digitizing material into modern formats, and free guided computing needs for poor or old people. They're also public gathering places, includ…
Living in Finland and doing remote work so often I just go library to program, it's pretty quiet, it has air conditioning and it's free.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#17Whats so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018
I live in Melbourne, Australia. I have cards with the state library, Melbourne city libraries, yarra city council libraries, and a membership with a small private library also in the city.
Firstly, books are still superior to e-readers (which i have and use), and far better than trying to read on a screen. I'll always get the physical copy if i can, and there's still a large number of books which don't have electronic copies. And apart from sci-hub, how else am i supposed to access half of the materials that universities subscribe to if i'm not a member of the library?
Secondly, they provide a quiet space in the city and community where you can go and dedicate to reading, investigation and study without requiring private space (which not everyone has): an egalitarian space. Open to everyone, neither differentiated by money nor access to private space, which is a premium in cities. The libraries variously provide classes, community groups, meeting facilities, IT and technology, television/video facilities, and event spaces. Yarra libraries has some television screens set up with gaming consoles which I notice the local refugee and public-housing community love to use. There's cafes and eating spaces in at least 3 of the library branches I use. They also provide regularly rotating exhibitions. One provides regular performance music and events.
I value libraries because they maintain an ideal: that knowledge is free, valuable, for the whole community, and that this is important to society, above and separate from private business and the pursuit of money.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#18Living in Finland when I was a child, one of the hilights every week was a trip to the local library with mom. First the comic books, then novels, then the crazy amount of music as CD's that you were by law able to rip to your computer. The local library had a massive influence to my personal growth and if you needed some book, film or album, you just talked with the librarians and you got it in a couple of days.
Such a nice service.
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#19Visit any library in Helsinki at any time and you'll discover that there are more librarians than customers. And there lies the problem, those hundreds of useless people have considerable political power, so they now try to "develop" this now worthless institution to something else.
Some numbers:
"The services of the Helsinki City Library are offered by 37 libraries, two mobile libraries, and a home library service for hospitals and care centres. The City Library has a staff of 450 people." https://www.hel.fi/kulttuurin-ja-vapaa-ajan-toimiala/en/abou...
There are approximately 6.2 million library visits and 106,500 opening hours yearly (so 58 visits per hour per library): http://dev.hel.fi/paatokset/asia/hel-2017-000648/
The typical visit lasts from 5 to 15 minutes (so 10 customers present on average per library): http://www.helmet.fi/fi-FI/Tapahtumat_ja_vinkit/Uutispalat/M...
Re: Finland's cities are havens for library lovers
#20Whats so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018
> "What's so great about libraries? Seems like a very inefficient way to store/disseminate information in 2018" I'm going to repeat something I've said previously on Hacker News: people underestimate how much information in books isn't online and just how much useful information is still tied up in those books. Many of us assume everything is mostly online and so it's our first port of call for any research or knowle…
Indeed. I've gone to the state library specifically to investigate accounts of Australian indigenous contact and anthropology.
Going through the books on the shelves there, its astounding just how much information exists that is not online at all, not even discounting that which is online but otherwise not freely available and ordered.