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Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

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Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#11

Post by brown9-2 »

I'm curious about the author's opinion of Liar's Poker, especially the line I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference.

I'm surprised that anyone would read Liar's Poker and think of it as a reference to Wall Street on an inspiration to work there. The "gorilla" culture described by Michael Lewis at Salomon Brothers in the 80s sounds very close to what the author experienced at GS in the mid-2000s. At the end of the book, Lewis leaves the firm after slightly more than a year, regarding his pay as obscene for the work he did and wondering about the utility and usefulness of the trading he did.

So, how could anyone read Liar's Poker and come away from it wanting to work on Wall Street? Or does obscene bonus pay blind people to all the negatives?

I don't think Michael Lewis ever intended the book to inspire people to work on Wall Street.

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#12

Post by daychilde »

mrtron wrote: post #9
daychilde wrote: post #2

> with the attention span of an ADHD kid hopped up on meth and Jolly Ranchers Well, I'm very disappointed to find this. 1. One of the more common (and certainly well-known) medications for ADHD is Ritalin, which is methylphenidate. It's mildly related to meth. The long story short is that giving meth to someone with ADHD would not cause them to be able to focus less ; rather, to be able to focus more . 2. Studies hav…

Give him a break and substitute cracked out for hopped up on meth. I also would guess the medical dose of ritalin is anywhere near the recreational meth dosage, but I don't know. What studies show that sugar doesn't cause hyperactivity in children? Anecdotal evidence and extensive field work with my brother's kids has shown me otherwise. You feed them a ton of sugar at the carnival and they go wild and then crash a f…

A quick search found this: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52...

As far as "giving him a break" - why doesn't he give me a break and not perpetuate inaccurate and hurtful stereotypes?

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#13

Post by arethuza »

brown9-2 wrote: post #11

I'm curious about the author's opinion of Liar's Poker, especially the line I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference. I'm surprised that anyone would read Liar's Poker and think of it as a reference to Wall Street on an inspiration to work there. The "gorilla" culture described by Michael Lewis at Salomon Brothers in the 80s sounds very close to what the author expe…

In The Big Short he mentions that although he never intended Liar's Poker to inspire people to work on Wall Street. However, that's precisely how a lot of people have treated it - he mentions he gets a lot of requests from people who read Liar's Poker and want tips on how to get started on Wall Street.

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#14

Post by samtp »

daychilde wrote: post #2

> with the attention span of an ADHD kid hopped up on meth and Jolly Ranchers Well, I'm very disappointed to find this. 1. One of the more common (and certainly well-known) medications for ADHD is Ritalin, which is methylphenidate. It's mildly related to meth. The long story short is that giving meth to someone with ADHD would not cause them to be able to focus less ; rather, to be able to focus more . 2. Studies hav…

It was just a passing comparison. He didn't mean to offend or disparage anyone, chill out.

Its the same thing as saying, "the 800 pound guerrilla." Sure, most guerrillas are nowhere near 800 pounds and may take offence to us calling them heavy. But thats not the point at all.

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#15

Post by htsh »

brown9-2 wrote: post #11

I'm curious about the author's opinion of Liar's Poker, especially the line I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference. I'm surprised that anyone would read Liar's Poker and think of it as a reference to Wall Street on an inspiration to work there. The "gorilla" culture described by Michael Lewis at Salomon Brothers in the 80s sounds very close to what the author expe…

No, he didn't but many took it as such. And I recall in a recent interview that he was disappointed that it was taken as inspiration by many people (as the author here).

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#16

Post by bambax »

arethuza wrote: post #13
brown9-2 wrote: post #11

I'm curious about the author's opinion of Liar's Poker, especially the line I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference. I'm surprised that anyone would read Liar's Poker and think of it as a reference to Wall Street on an inspiration to work there. The "gorilla" culture described by Michael Lewis at Salomon Brothers in the 80s sounds very close to what the author expe…

In The Big Short he mentions that although he never intended Liar's Poker to inspire people to work on Wall Street. However, that's precisely how a lot of people have treated it - he mentions he gets a lot of requests from people who read Liar's Poker and want tips on how to get started on Wall Street.

Yes. From the introduction to The Big Short (page XV):

"I hoped that some bright kid at Ohio State University who really wanted to be an oceanographer would read my book [Liar's Poker], spurn the offer from Golman Sachs, and set out to sea.

Some how that message was mainly lost. Six months after Liar's Poker was published, I was kee-deep in letters from students at Ohio State University who wanted to know if I had any other secrets to share about Wall Street. They'd read my book as a how-to manual."

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#18

Post by mdda »

brown9-2 wrote: post #11

I'm curious about the author's opinion of Liar's Poker, especially the line I got on a plane to New York within the week. I packed my copy of Liar’s Poker for reference. I'm surprised that anyone would read Liar's Poker and think of it as a reference to Wall Street on an inspiration to work there. The "gorilla" culture described by Michael Lewis at Salomon Brothers in the 80s sounds very close to what the author expe…

Everyone on Wall St (approximately) has read Liars Poker - and, while there's some artistic license being take, the observations are basically dead-on. And people are proud that they work in an industry that has such a compelling book. And they see the characters (or their company's versions) every day.

To pick other examples : 'Wall Street' is a must-see movie for everyone on the Street (though it's completely overblown). OTOH, Boiler Room (while being a decent movie) doesn't resonant much, since the vast majority of the money on Wall St is made by making tiny percentages on large amounts, rather than by ripping off small investors...

I guess that the majority of Wall St think that Liars Poker is a fairly balanced (and interesting) view of what goes on. Michael Lewis has an entertaining and insider-ish blog on Bloomberg (NI LEWIS, if you're in front of a terminal)

And here's an article he published yesterday (really targeted at the Wall St crowd) : http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-13/hedge-fund-man-f...

Re: Founding a startup with zero revenue is better than working for Goldman Sachs

#20

Post by mrtron »

daychilde wrote: post #12
mrtron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give him a break and substitute cracked out for hopped up on meth. I also would guess the medical dose of ritalin is anywhere near the recreational meth dosage, but I don't know. What studies show that sugar doesn't cause hyperactivity in children? Anecdotal evidence and extensive field work with my brother's kids has shown me otherwise. You feed them a ton of sugar at the carnival and they go wild and then crash a f…

A quick search found this: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52... As far as "giving him a break" - why doesn't he give me a break and not perpetuate inaccurate and hurtful stereotypes?

Please don't take a tiny offhand comment that has nothing to do with the key point of the essay as a personal attack on you. That comment there isn't hurtful or perpetuating anything about you.
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