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Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

theguardian.com

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Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#11

Post by ksk »

John_KZ wrote: post #9
mattsfrey wrote: post #4

This needs to be rejected whole sale. One nation does NOT have the authority to dictate what a company can do outside of it's borders and concerns. The censorship issues that have been cropping up lately in these regards are appalling. The "hate speech" legislature of many EU nations comes to mind. If that insanity were to be enforced "world wide" it's seriously time for new service providers to step up that aren't s…

Exactly. Google should have subsidiaries in each nation it operates and obey the local law - nothing more and nothing less. Canadia courts should not have an effect on Mexico, and Iranian courts should not have an effect on the US. Google can sell/offer it's services anywhere as long as it's legal.

Google doesn't want that because not every subsidiary would be profitable, and they would have to pay local taxes in every country they have an office/employ people/generate revenue.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#12

Post by closeparen »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #5
justherefortart wrote: post #2

Terrible ruling, do they even understand how the internet works? Oh well, when you're a global company, this is the BS you have to deal with.

Are you saying it's impossible for Google to block some results globally? Because even if I may agree with the sentiment, I don't see how technology is the problem here–differences in law are. And if technology were the problem, that'd be the weakest possible argument. Where ever possible, technology need to evolve to serve what society (democratically) decides. You and I may not agree with this specific decision, bu…

Whose society? Whose democracy? The fundamental argument for democracy’s legitimacy is that citizens can (theoretically) influence policy. You don’t get to vote in foreign countries, but they get to censor your view of the internet?

We wouldn’t even be talking about Russian election meddling if Russia had global internet censorship power.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#13

Post by tw04 »

John_KZ wrote: post #9
mattsfrey wrote: post #4

This needs to be rejected whole sale. One nation does NOT have the authority to dictate what a company can do outside of it's borders and concerns. The censorship issues that have been cropping up lately in these regards are appalling. The "hate speech" legislature of many EU nations comes to mind. If that insanity were to be enforced "world wide" it's seriously time for new service providers to step up that aren't s…

Exactly. Google should have subsidiaries in each nation it operates and obey the local law - nothing more and nothing less. Canadia courts should not have an effect on Mexico, and Iranian courts should not have an effect on the US. Google can sell/offer it's services anywhere as long as it's legal.

So if Google operates a subsidiary in China, they should be completely immune from a lawsuit in the US, if say, they sell your private personal info to the highest bidder in that nation?

I don't see how that could be abused...

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#14

Post by Nomentatus »

jpiasetz wrote: post #3

This has already been blocked by a US court https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-court-sides-with-google-aga... so it's in the BC court to get modified.

False according to the article you cited - Google could go to court in Canada with a request... as it always could. One can request anything, almost, in a court, or sue anyone. But can you win.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#15

Post by TangoTrotFox »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #5
justherefortart wrote: post #2

Terrible ruling, do they even understand how the internet works? Oh well, when you're a global company, this is the BS you have to deal with.

Are you saying it's impossible for Google to block some results globally? Because even if I may agree with the sentiment, I don't see how technology is the problem here–differences in law are. And if technology were the problem, that'd be the weakest possible argument. Where ever possible, technology need to evolve to serve what society (democratically) decides. You and I may not agree with this specific decision, bu…

> "Where ever possible, technology need to evolve to serve what society (democratically) decides. You and I may not agree with this specific decision, but the process that created it is still far more legitimate than whatever Google or, in other cases, two guys and a compiler come up with."

Freedom, to the greatest extent possible, is what matters. Invoking 'the legitimacy of process' really makes me cringe here as it's undoubtedly the exact sort of logic that led people to let religious institutions hold back the world for centuries. And that rule was not authoritarian in practice, even if it may have been in law. Poll the masses of the time and you'd see a democratic consensus for most of these incredibly backwards decisions that held society back.

So to me the question is does a court in country A have a right to demand that a company in country B behave differently in country C? Is this a reasonable restriction of freedom? To me that seems to be a resounding no. Perhaps you can argue there are good reasons for this, but please do so in means other than invoking some appeal to 'legitimacy', whatever that's supposed to mean.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#16

Post by jaclaz »

asdfologist wrote: post #7

Is this even enforceable?

>Is this even enforceable?

You mean practically or legally?

The actual California sentence makes it unenforceable legally (in the US):

https://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/google-v-equustek-united...

It should be actually marked [2017], however.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#17

Post by jerf »

tw04 wrote: post #13
John_KZ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Google should have subsidiaries in each nation it operates and obey the local law - nothing more and nothing less. Canadia courts should not have an effect on Mexico, and Iranian courts should not have an effect on the US. Google can sell/offer it's services anywhere as long as it's legal.

So if Google operates a subsidiary in China, they should be completely immune from a lawsuit in the US, if say, they sell your private personal info to the highest bidder in that nation? I don't see how that could be abused...

Your question at the moment is ill-defined. Carefully expand out the nationalities of the "you" who is buying the info, the nationalities of the person whom the info is about, the nationality of the subsidiary from which the information is being purchased, and the nationality under which you believe they should be suable. ("Jurisdiction", if you prefer, may replace "nationality".)

There's a lot of combinations in there, and I don't think conversation can be profitable had without being clear. It's fine to fill it in with variables, too, I'm not asking for a concrete binding, but at the very least your question as I read it now is missing whose information is being sold.

(Also note the ONLY thing I'm saying here is that you need to be more clear. I am not making any claims of my own at this time, because before I can have an opinion about an answer to a question, there needs to be a question.)

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#18

Post by turc1656 »

So what happens when, for example, a US court or a court of some other jurisdiction in another country rules that their free speech laws say that a court cannot legally force them to pull results globally? What do they do then? I assume that since the US/other court wouldn't be forcing them, they would default to pulling it since Canada can apparently force them to do so, so pulling the data is mandatory in Canada but "voluntary" for the rest of the world.

Far more importantly, a single country is now censoring the speech of companies globally. That's a truly astounding verdict to issue in a court of law. What about the sovereignty of all other nations?

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#20

Post by izacus »

mattsfrey wrote: post #4

This needs to be rejected whole sale. One nation does NOT have the authority to dictate what a company can do outside of it's borders and concerns. The censorship issues that have been cropping up lately in these regards are appalling. The "hate speech" legislature of many EU nations comes to mind. If that insanity were to be enforced "world wide" it's seriously time for new service providers to step up that aren't s…

So does that mean that we should punish Google when it pulls our YouTube video due to trademark concerns valid only inside US and videos with pro-Russian, pro-Chinese, pro-ISIS political slant?

Or does this your idea only work for US cultural norms? Should we then start processes of getting Google out of EU, Asia? After all, a media service who distributes illegal content inside your borders, spreads US propaganda, bans your propaganda ... is dangerous right?

How do we reconcile the fact that those are global services?

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