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Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

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Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#11

Post by otoburb »

otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

>>If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day.

If the system detects that hands are not on the wheel, perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. Perhaps, send warnings alerts to law enforcement, insurance companies, or emergency contacts? Not sure what the fallback procedure is when Autopilot detects dangerous situations for extended periods of time - presumably disengaging completely would be worse, unless there's a safe way for Autopilot to pull over to the shoulder at the next available opportunity.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#12

Post by throwaway6497 »

otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

This response from Tesla comes across as cold and shows no empathy to the victim's family. "We are very sorry for the family's loss" sounds so hollow after reading the rest of the statement. Does Tesla needs to give such strong public statement against the victim and his family? What is the point? Tesla is euphemistically saying - "Driver was stupid. Sorry but not really." This statement is really hurtful for the family and friends who got affected by this tragedy. Grow some heart Tesla. I am probably asking too much from a faceless corporation.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#13

Post by bentruyman »

eridius wrote: post #8

I have to wonder why Tesla keeps doubling down on victim-blaming. Is this a case of Elon Musk being insecure about criticism (since he's demonstrated a tendency in the past to react poorly to it)? Or is Tesla trying to actually lower their legal liability? Edit: To clarify, in most of these crashes, it's usually a combination of Tesla's fault and the driver's fault. Which is to say, the driver could have avoided the…

Where's your evidence that any of the people who've crashed in these Teslas were "victims"?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#14

Post by toomuchtodo »

eridius wrote: post #8

I have to wonder why Tesla keeps doubling down on victim-blaming. Is this a case of Elon Musk being insecure about criticism (since he's demonstrated a tendency in the past to react poorly to it)? Or is Tesla trying to actually lower their legal liability? Edit: To clarify, in most of these crashes, it's usually a combination of Tesla's fault and the driver's fault. Which is to say, the driver could have avoided the…

Tesla is exerting and reinforcing that it is not liable for poor driver decisions. If you use any vehicle safety aid while not paying attention, and you die or kill someone while in control of the vehicle, that is your liability.

Whether they call their system "Autopilot" is immaterial. You are the responsibly party as the driver, and this is made clear both at purchase time and during vehicle use.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#15

Post by matt2000 »

The thing that sometimes gets lost in the debate around Tesla autopilot (IMO), is that it's possible for self driving cars to be theoretically better than human drivers, AND that Tesla's implementation of that concept to be overall worse.

From the recent accidents it seems clear that Tesla autopilot is just not that great in it's current form. Even if it's following a line that it mistakes for a lane marker, how is it ok that it can't stop for a large obstacle in front of the car when given plenty of distance before a crash? How is this not a totally unacceptable type of failure for a system like this?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#16

Post by Diederich »

otoburb wrote: post #11
otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

>> If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day. If the system detects that hands are not on the wheel, perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. Perhaps, send warnings alerts to law enforcement, insurance companies, or emergency contacts? Not sure what the fallback pr…

It first flashes, then beeps at you, and then disengages, so you start slowing down.

I believe that if that happens, it won't re-engage again until after the car is stopped, shut off, and re-started.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#17

Post by neolefty »

otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

People routinely ignore warnings. Did Mr. Huang normally ignore those warnings every day? If so, how are those warnings not just ass-covering by Tesla?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#18

Post by tc »

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time.

----

We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affected everyone on our team deeply, and our hearts go out to the family and friends of Walter Huang.

We've recovered data that indicates Autopilot was engaged at the time of the accident. The vehicle drove straight into the barrier. In the five seconds leading up to the crash, neither Autopilot nor the driver took any evasive action.

Our engineers are investigating why the car failed to detect or avoid the obstacle. Any lessons we can take from this tragedy will be deployed across our entire fleet of vehicles. Saving other lives is the best we can hope to take away from an event like this.

In that same spirit, we would like to remind all Tesla drivers that Autopilot is not a fully-autonomous driving system. It's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. Just as with autopilots in aviation, while the tool does reduce workload, it's critical to always stay attentive. The car cannot drive itself. It can help, but you have to do your job.

We do realize, however, that a system like Autopilot can lure people into a false sense of security. That's one reason we are hard at work on the problem of fully autonomous driving. It will take a few years, but we look forward to some day making accidents like this a part of history.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#19

Post by TaylorAlexander »

I am a huge fan of Elon Musk and a small TSLA share holder, but there is something about Tesla and Musk’s response to this that feels so wrong. It seems two faced. On the one hand, they shout about how great and safe their technology is, and on the other hand they blame someone for dying when they chose to rely on that technology. Is it safe or unsafe? I know it’s not that simple, but this response still saddens me.

I know they must have people who want to bring them down through legal action. And I think they want to establish a precedent that they are not liable in any crashes out of a desire to protect the corporation. But still, this response seems so cold, and so uncaring, that I am reminded that Tesla is still a corporation that in the end must protect itself.

I want self driving cars, but not a world without compassion. Why is it that we seem forced to choose one versus the other?

EDIT: Immediately after hitting send, two Model 3’s passed me one after the other, before any other vehicles passed. The universe is strange.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#20

Post by rootlocus »

ajross wrote: post #7
otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

I'm normally an automation booster, but this is the wrong PR take for sure. I mean, to take this at face value it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die. Maybe that will work in court, but it's not going to sell a lot of cars. I mean... clearly (hopefully) this isn't the attitude being exhibited inside the company. We all kn…

> it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die

No, it doesn't just "sound like", it's actually

> extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel. This reminder is made every single time Autopilot is engaged. If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts.

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