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Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

nature.com

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Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#11

Post by bkovacev »

Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

Why would you limit yourself only to probiotics when prebiotics/symbiotics exist? I recently learned about them - bear with me as I have zero experience and lack of terminology in pharma - prebiotics will create a better environment/surface for probiotics to feed on and symbiotics are both pre and pro in a single pill.

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#12

Post by Lasso2 »

Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

I work in the microbiome field, and colleagues and i discussed this paper a few days ago. The overall impression seems to be that this is not for the practically-minded but primarily science for scientists. A lot of microbiome studies have suffered from inadequate exclusion critera because of the lack of this systematic knowledge.

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#13

Post by passiveincomelg »

vixen99 wrote: post #10
adrianN wrote: post #5

It's unclear to me how to interpret the result. It makes sense to test the influence of drugs on gut microbes, but to put the effect into context I'd be interested in the effect of, for example, normal food. How many species of gut microbes are affected by apples or coffee or whole grain bread? I also imagine that eating fermented foods causes a slaughter in your gut as the different microbes battle for dominance.

Yes, a battle too horrible to contemplate! Imagine the slaughter consequent on ingesting coffee,chocolate,tea,sourdough bread,cheese,buttermilk,crème fraîche,yogurt,kefir,salami,wine,beer,sauerkraut,dill pickles,kimchi,kombucha,fish sauce,vinegar,miso or tempeh.

Great. Now I'm hungry.

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#14

Post by passiveincomelg »

novia wrote: post #3
Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

You could always opt for a fecal transplant.

Hopefully using this eventually, instead of the real thing: https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186...

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#16

Post by Lasso2 »

bkovacev wrote: post #11
Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

Why would you limit yourself only to probiotics when prebiotics/symbiotics exist? I recently learned about them - bear with me as I have zero experience and lack of terminology in pharma - prebiotics will create a better environment/surface for probiotics to feed on and symbiotics are both pre and pro in a single pill.

It isn't really clear that synbitoics work yet, the evidence for metabolic outcomes at least is sparse as of now http://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/167/htm (see figure 6)

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#17

Post by Arn_Thor »

adrianN wrote: post #5

It's unclear to me how to interpret the result. It makes sense to test the influence of drugs on gut microbes, but to put the effect into context I'd be interested in the effect of, for example, normal food. How many species of gut microbes are affected by apples or coffee or whole grain bread? I also imagine that eating fermented foods causes a slaughter in your gut as the different microbes battle for dominance.

Yes and no? I'm sure it's a fierce fight, but AFAIK a diet of fermented foods is considered healthy, and good for digestion. So presumably a diet of fermented foods can result in some beneficial equilibrium

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#18

Post by forgotmypw »

Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

I think that the best thing one can do for their microbiome is to stop trying to kill germs in everything around us. Also, when a dog wants to kiss you, accept it. They are good at maintaining theirs.

Look at the ingredients on all the products you use. Unless it's Dr. Bronner's soap or something similar, chances it's harmful to both humans and microbes. Just stop using and stop buying that shit!

Sterility is good for the operating table, but not for everyday life.

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#19

Post by amelius »

Lasso2 wrote: post #12
Semirhage wrote: post #2

What I want to know is what to do about it by way of probiotic therapy or buffering agents and such. Efficacy of probiotics in practice seems mixed, so what exactly is the takeaway here for the practically minded person who sometimes takes anti-inflammatory medications?

I work in the microbiome field, and colleagues and i discussed this paper a few days ago. The overall impression seems to be that this is not for the practically-minded but primarily science for scientists. A lot of microbiome studies have suffered from inadequate exclusion critera because of the lack of this systematic knowledge.

How long until we have a better delivery method for "good" species, and will that solve all microbiome related problems?

Re: Gut microbes are vulnerable to wide range of drugs

#20

Post by bfuller »

vixen99 wrote: post #10
adrianN wrote: post #5

It's unclear to me how to interpret the result. It makes sense to test the influence of drugs on gut microbes, but to put the effect into context I'd be interested in the effect of, for example, normal food. How many species of gut microbes are affected by apples or coffee or whole grain bread? I also imagine that eating fermented foods causes a slaughter in your gut as the different microbes battle for dominance.

Yes, a battle too horrible to contemplate! Imagine the slaughter consequent on ingesting coffee,chocolate,tea,sourdough bread,cheese,buttermilk,crème fraîche,yogurt,kefir,salami,wine,beer,sauerkraut,dill pickles,kimchi,kombucha,fish sauce,vinegar,miso or tempeh.

you just listed my regular cravings
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