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China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#11

Post by ghostcluster »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

Although this new scheme has the potential for punishing dissidents, I oddly don't find it too bothersome. Five years ago this idea would have seriously creeped me out. What has changed? To some degree I feel numbed and desensitized by my own government (USA) with TSA searching laptops and social media at borders, near total special interest control of "news" media, and the general feeling that now more than in the p…

If you consider being born into a well-connected Han family with close ties to the CCP 'a meritocracy'

China's problem with bribing officials like police officers and doctors just to get nominal service is so bad that Xi is making a display of curbing it, but I'm not sure their society and political system is structured in a way that can really prevent it. Nobody is accountable to the public outside of the party's inner hierarchy.

And the way they've described this system: it will ban citizens who 'violate norms' from using high speed rail, traveling by air, and renting apartments in the major cities.

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#12

Post by richmarr »

dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Can you be more specific about these ways you imagine it backfiring?

Brooker tackled this kind of thing in Black Mirror, and while his vision of it was pretty bleak, it actually seemed a lot more open to social mobility than our current system in which inequality is becoming more deeply entrenched.

Presumably there's no way to live off your parents 'social credit' trust fund.

The Black Mirror version of this system would be deeply affected by attractiveness, for example, which would be one possible failing, but there's no indication that the Chinese version is as susceptible to that.

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#13

Post by sh4z »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

Although this new scheme has the potential for punishing dissidents, I oddly don't find it too bothersome. Five years ago this idea would have seriously creeped me out. What has changed? To some degree I feel numbed and desensitized by my own government (USA) with TSA searching laptops and social media at borders, near total special interest control of "news" media, and the general feeling that now more than in the p…

I agree. I'd rather have a public system (albeit it might be flawed) than have private companies (facebook, google?) and the likes of TSA and CIA working, possibly together, doing pretty much the same thing

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#14

Post by free652 »

richmarr wrote: post #12
dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Can you be more specific about these ways you imagine it backfiring? Brooker tackled this kind of thing in Black Mirror, and while his vision of it was pretty bleak, it actually seemed a lot more open to social mobility than our current system in which inequality is becoming more deeply entrenched. Presumably there's no way to live off your parents 'social credit' trust fund. The Black Mirror version of this system w…

>Presumably there's no way to live off your parents 'social credit' trust fund.

LOL. Doesn't matter what the system is - the people with power will always find a way around it. USSR - check, China - check.

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#15

Post by nothrabannosir »

richmarr wrote: post #12
dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Can you be more specific about these ways you imagine it backfiring? Brooker tackled this kind of thing in Black Mirror, and while his vision of it was pretty bleak, it actually seemed a lot more open to social mobility than our current system in which inequality is becoming more deeply entrenched. Presumably there's no way to live off your parents 'social credit' trust fund. The Black Mirror version of this system w…

Social mobility at the cost of honest expression of personal beliefs, though. Essentially, lack of personal freedom through rigorous self-censorship.

In that episode, Nosedive, the higher up you got, the more "fake" it got. The lower you got, the more "real". Culminating with the archteypical "likeable truck lady".

Loss of freedom, no matter if through oppression or through more insiduous means like reverse psychology, is a very heavy price to pay.

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#17

Post by johnchristopher »

dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

> I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy.

That's a bold statement.

Who defines the goals ? The one(s) who can attain them ?

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#18

Post by kome »

dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Funny trivia: the word "meritocracy" is the invention of a British sociologist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Young,_Baron_Young_of_...

In his book "The Rise of the Meritocracy" (1958) he describes a dystopia where everything in a society is decided by using "merit" (intelligence + effort).

For all of those whom use "meritocracy" with a positive connotation, it should be a compulsory read. It's also short and very fun.

Re: China’s experiment in ranking and monitoring citizens has started

#19

Post by JoeAltmaier »

johnchristopher wrote: post #17
dqpb wrote: post #6

I understand the inclination to do this - I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. But I just can't image this not backfiring. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

> I think it's natural to want to live in a meritocracy. That's a bold statement. Who defines the goals ? The one(s) who can attain them ?

Like school! And college! The folks that work there, are the ones that did well there.

Not kidding. Its this circular 'meritocracy' argument that makes for insular, inbred organizations with few creative ideas.

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