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How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

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Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#11

Post by mantas »

dalbasal wrote: post #2

I think it's worth occasionally thinking of the "economy" in simple terms, especially for the wider middle class. There are relatively few broad categories that make up most of our economic lives. For most people the "economy" mostly consists of (0) their job/income (1) food/consumable (2) stuff/durables (3) transport (4) vital services: health, education, etc. (5) housing. 1 & 2 are well served by free markets, and…

> Soviet housing system...? opinions vary.

Opinions vary for those who were exposed to privileged side only. In reality, most people had to wait decades for an apartment. There was an easy way to get an apartment though - get sent to bumfuck nowhere for infrastructure project (military base or factory, nuclear plant etc..). Or climb up the party ladder or get a job at well-connected company than get arrange you an apartment.

On top of that, many people were stuck in Kolchoz without any prospect of moving to a city. Thus were was no pressure to the system. If a city can't take in people - they're not sent in..

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#12

Post by ed_blackburn »

baxtr wrote: post #9
daanlo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a German perspective, I can say that costs of building a house are rising mainly due to new legislation around CO2 reduction and fire safety. In a time when producing most goods is getting cheaper through technology, cost of house conatruction is rising. There also doesn't seem to be much innivation in the building industry.

Adding a German perspective: this might be one factor among many. Other factors include - land owners who wait to sell at even higher prices - drastically reduced social housing construction (Sozialer Wohnbau) - heavy influx of foreign capital (at least in major cities) reducing existing capacities - missing holistic development concepts/strategies (one big exception is probably the Bahnstadt in Heidelberg) - on aver…

Sounds just like London. I would hazard a guess these symptoms are common.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#13

Post by Roritharr »

baxtr wrote: post #9
daanlo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a German perspective, I can say that costs of building a house are rising mainly due to new legislation around CO2 reduction and fire safety. In a time when producing most goods is getting cheaper through technology, cost of house conatruction is rising. There also doesn't seem to be much innivation in the building industry.

Adding a German perspective: this might be one factor among many. Other factors include - land owners who wait to sell at even higher prices - drastically reduced social housing construction (Sozialer Wohnbau) - heavy influx of foreign capital (at least in major cities) reducing existing capacities - missing holistic development concepts/strategies (one big exception is probably the Bahnstadt in Heidelberg) - on aver…

What i've lately dreamed about doing is a city-building Kickstarter. You take a piece of undeveloped land in Germany, buy it for cheap and then let people & companies pledge money to build housing at building cost with the requirement that it has to be used by the owner himself, until you get enough for a 500k-1M people city. I'd love to live in a city where every inhabitant is an owner, something drastically different than the rest of Germany.

It's just a dream with a lot of big holes, i'd love to hear how to make this viable.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#14

Post by masklinn »

mabbo wrote: post #5

The true essence of the article: > Japan has a relatively simple and unambiguous zoning code, one which the national government has repeatedly adjusted in order to allow for more housing growth in Tokyo. That has been done in the face of opposition at neighbourhood and even city level, opposition that in countries which have devolved land use decisions to a local level would be enough to stop densification or at leas…

> We need more of this in the western world.

AFAIK EU zonings are not significantly (if at all) more complex than Japanese zoning, the US are the stand-out there with a constellation of byzantine exclusive zonings. I do know for certain that both french and german zoning are national/federal policy and (quite necessarily) mixed-use.

So it would probably be a good thing to unfuck US zoning (good luck with that though), but it can not be the "true essence" of the article.

My reading is not that the meat is "simple zoning" but:

1. Japanese people don't have "mandatory fantasies" of single-occupancy dwellings, and people are fine with living in good multi-family dwellings (apartments), note that the average Tokyoite dwelling is 64 sq m (690 sq ft)

2. Japanese people don't value buildings[0], only land

3. Which means tearing down buildings and replacing them is normal and expected

4. Which (combined with residential zoning concepts) means it's easy and common to redevelop low-density dwellings (single-occupancy and low-density 1~2 storeys apartment buildings) into higher-density ones, the graphs in the middle of the article could hardly be clearer there with single-occupancy dwellings having remained roughly flat but 3~5 and 6+ storey buildings having skyrocketed (alongside the number of homes having increased much faster than residential land acreage)

Simplifying zoning codes is not going to make Europe — let alone the US — adopt these mentalities.

[0] personal ones, family/clan homes & temples are a different case

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#15

Post by ekianjo »

afarrell wrote: post #3

> For obvious reasons there aren’t many dwellings in Tokyo dating from earlier than 1950 For those unfamiliar with this bit of history, a significant quantity of Tokyo housing stock was burnt by a US Air Force incendiary bombing operation on March 10th, 1945. It was the single most destructive air attack of WWII, though it is likely that more individuals died in the Atomic bombing of Nagasaki.

> It was the single most destructive air attack of WWII, though it is likely that more individuals died in the Atomic bombing of Nagasaki.

If you take it as a single event, yes, but by far the cumulative effects of fire-bombing Japanese cities killed way more civilians that Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#16

Post by freeflight »

mantas wrote: post #11
dalbasal wrote: post #2

I think it's worth occasionally thinking of the "economy" in simple terms, especially for the wider middle class. There are relatively few broad categories that make up most of our economic lives. For most people the "economy" mostly consists of (0) their job/income (1) food/consumable (2) stuff/durables (3) transport (4) vital services: health, education, etc. (5) housing. 1 & 2 are well served by free markets, and…

> Soviet housing system...? opinions vary. Opinions vary for those who were exposed to privileged side only. In reality, most people had to wait decades for an apartment. There was an easy way to get an apartment though - get sent to bumfuck nowhere for infrastructure project (military base or factory, nuclear plant etc..). Or climb up the party ladder or get a job at well-connected company than get arrange you an ap…

> Opinions vary for those who were exposed to privileged side only.

That's completely opposite to my experience in the GDR. Neither my aunt nor my grandparents had to wait "decades" to move into their Plattenbau apartments and I can assure you neither of them had been on the "privileged side", their Stasi files make that pretty clear.

For my grandparents it was a giant step up in terms of living conditions, previously they lived in an old house that didn't even have running water in the toilets.

In contrast to that, the Plattenbau apartments had very modern design and interiors, they are still living there happily to this day.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#17

Post by tormeh »

daanlo wrote: post #8
dalbasal wrote: post #2

I think it's worth occasionally thinking of the "economy" in simple terms, especially for the wider middle class. There are relatively few broad categories that make up most of our economic lives. For most people the "economy" mostly consists of (0) their job/income (1) food/consumable (2) stuff/durables (3) transport (4) vital services: health, education, etc. (5) housing. 1 & 2 are well served by free markets, and…

From a German perspective, I can say that costs of building a house are rising mainly due to new legislation around CO2 reduction and fire safety. In a time when producing most goods is getting cheaper through technology, cost of house conatruction is rising. There also doesn't seem to be much innivation in the building industry.

Building costs are negligible next to land costs.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#18

Post by masklinn »

avar wrote: post #10

The reason housing is such an issue in the richest parts of the world is because zoning policy is set at the local level. The interests of prospective buyers and market incumbents are at polar opposites. Byers want cheap housing, but existing owners want their property value to rise. Since those living in the area get to vote the natural outcome is stagnation. Japan is somewhat getting around this for two reasons. Na…

> The reason housing is such an issue in the richest parts of the world is because zoning policy is set at the local level.

Don't assume US insanity has sway everywhere else. Continental EU zoning models are similar to Japan's, Germany and France zoning are national/federal policies and non-exclusive zoning.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#19

Post by tormeh »

Roritharr wrote: post #13
baxtr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding a German perspective: this might be one factor among many. Other factors include - land owners who wait to sell at even higher prices - drastically reduced social housing construction (Sozialer Wohnbau) - heavy influx of foreign capital (at least in major cities) reducing existing capacities - missing holistic development concepts/strategies (one big exception is probably the Bahnstadt in Heidelberg) - on aver…

What i've lately dreamed about doing is a city-building Kickstarter. You take a piece of undeveloped land in Germany, buy it for cheap and then let people & companies pledge money to build housing at building cost with the requirement that it has to be used by the owner himself, until you get enough for a 500k-1M people city. I'd love to live in a city where every inhabitant is an owner, something drastically differe…

You can just move to Oslo. Norway doesn't have a functioning rental market. It's because of big tax advantages for homeowners and social stigma for renters. The grass is always greener on the other side. I prefer German cities.

Re: How Tokyo built its way to abundant housing

#20

Post by neilwilson »

dalbasal wrote: post #2

I think it's worth occasionally thinking of the "economy" in simple terms, especially for the wider middle class. There are relatively few broad categories that make up most of our economic lives. For most people the "economy" mostly consists of (0) their job/income (1) food/consumable (2) stuff/durables (3) transport (4) vital services: health, education, etc. (5) housing. 1 & 2 are well served by free markets, and…

There can never be enough jobs for everybody with 'free markets'. Structurally there can only ever be 95 jobs for every 100 people. Inflation is controlled by an unemployment buffer - because matching people to jobs doesn't clear a market in a world with full time jobs.
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