This kind of stuff shouldn't be allowed on HN ... couldn't stop laughing out loud like a maniac.
The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
11–20 of 86 posts
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#12Eh, honestly be grateful there are people that want to talk to you. Learn some basic assertiveness if such friendly interactions are excruciating for you.
it's easier for some people than for others. Especially for introverts, the skill of leaving gracefully is a non-trivial skill that needs to be learned.
I mean, most people are capable of saying "fuck you leave me alone you asshole" but usually, you don't want to come off that strong. In most cases, you don't really have any desire to hurt the other person, and hell, you might even want to talk later, or talk about a different subject. I just want to be very clear that I am not interested in hearing about how all 50 presidents can be traced back to some 13th century English aristocrat, or hearing about some other crazy political idea or theory that doesn't lead to something implementable.
It's the ability to make it clear that you aren't interested in this conversation right now without sounding like you aren't interested in talking with this person ever that is the tricky bit for those of us who are not particularly skilled.
I used to be really, really bad at this. I'm getting better, but I still use crutches and props like my laptop or cellphone, or simply making up something I've gotta do. (well, really, there's /always/ something useful I could be doing, but if I'm at my local hackerspace, if someone wants to talk politics, I'm far more likely to actually start working as an excuse to avoid the conversation.)
Part of it is being willing to be a little rude... but like I said, the hard part about that isn't so much the being rude, the hard part is being "a little" rude - enough to get the desired result without completely alienating the other person.
This, I think, is what the author of the article was mentioning. In the introduction, he says "You need to find a way to end the conversation without making it seem like you want the conversation to end." - which is wrong, I think. My opinion is that you should find a way to indicate that you wish to end this conversation without indicating that you don't like or never want to talk to this person again.
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#13It is embarrassing that some of the most otherwise socially capable people do not know the proper technique to extricate yourself from a conversation.
First, what you don't do:
1. Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away. Worst case, you've made an enemy.
2. Do not say "I want to go to the buffet/bathroom". They may want to go along with you.
What to do:
1. State what you want. "I'd like to go meet those people over there."
2. Give them a choice. "Come with me"
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#14It is embarrassing that some of the most otherwise socially capable people do not know the proper technique to extricate yourself from a conversation. First, what you don't do: 1. Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away. Worst case, you've made an enemy. 2. Do not say "I want to go to the buffet/bathroom". They may want to go along with you. What to do: 1. State what you want. "I'd like to go meet thos…
>Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away
wait a second... I do that all the time. what's bad about it?
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#15Enjoyed the article, but I've learned to just be a little rude. Rejection is part of life, and you can't live yours just trying not to hurt peoples' feelings. In fact, if you actually care, you should find a time to talk to the person about how they can improve themselves. If you don't, the more honest you are with your interactions, the better, IMO. People who play the game this author plays are a big reason I want…
Seattle is one of the worst cities in the US, nay, world for this!
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#16It is embarrassing that some of the most otherwise socially capable people do not know the proper technique to extricate yourself from a conversation. First, what you don't do: 1. Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away. Worst case, you've made an enemy. 2. Do not say "I want to go to the buffet/bathroom". They may want to go along with you. What to do: 1. State what you want. "I'd like to go meet thos…
>Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away wait a second... I do that all the time. what's bad about it?
Was it really nice to meet them? Or are you trying to ditch them? When someone pulls the 'it was nice meeting you' gambit on you - are you relieved or do you like being ditched?
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away wait a second... I do that all the time. what's bad about it?
Was it really nice to meet them? Or are you trying to ditch them? When someone pulls the 'it was nice meeting you' gambit on you - are you relieved or do you like being ditched?
you know what I don't like? I don't like not knowing if a person is genuinely interested or just being polite. I mean, the last thing I want to do is to trap someone into a boring (to them) conversation. I'd much rather they tell me they aren't interested. On the other hand, I don't want to avoid talking to people out of unfounded fear.
Really, the best solution is to have people leave when they are no longer interested in talking to me. (I mean, it'd be even better if I could get actual feedback so I'd know if they were bored or if they have other things to do but that sounds like too much to ask.) I mean, I try to leave people places in the conversation where they can leave if they aren't interested in my 'tales from the computer janitor' or whatever, but that's hard to do without sounding like I'm not interested in talking to them, so really it works out best when people are direct.
So yeah, speaking as someone without much by way of social skills, I depend on people leaving, or as you said "ditching" me when they are bored with me- I mean, sure there are subtle signals the socially skilled send so others can tell when someone else is bored. Sometimes I can pick up on those... but sometimes I can't. Like I said, I'm not very socially skilled.
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#18Reminds me of one of Jim Carey's famous scenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g1KcOw7zas
"He" so needs to make a sequel to that movie. "Pretty bird..."
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Never ever say "It was nice meeting you" and walk away wait a second... I do that all the time. what's bad about it?
Was it really nice to meet them? Or are you trying to ditch them? When someone pulls the 'it was nice meeting you' gambit on you - are you relieved or do you like being ditched?
Oh man, life in Indiana is much simpler, it appears. We're good at polite nothings - nobody sane here would be offended at somebody saying, "Well, nice meeting you" and walking away. That's just how you say you're done with this particular interaction. If people don't like it, they probably move to Seattle or something.
Re: The Four Levels of Social Entrapment
#20Conversation Zen Levels from lowest zen to highest:
Level 1: The conversation does not involve talking about your job. This is only acceptable in business network situations. If you are not at a trade show, business event, in an interview or at work you shouldn't talk about work. This is the most pathetic type of small talk, as it immediately puts you in a social class/stereotype bucket.
Level 2: The conversation does not involve talking about where you live, or whether you are going to school and where. Unless you are exactly the same age, you are not likely to gain any useful information from this, except to put people into a social class or stereotype bucket, which is detrimental to conversation.
Level 3: The conversation does not involve talking about any topics that have to do with people or activities outside of the immediate first-hand knowledge of the individuals involved in the conversation. E.g no talk about sports, celebrities, world politics, etc. This kind of talk usually results in nothing positive that you haven't had 100 or more conversations about already and serves to bucketize, not in so far as social class is concerned but in other aspects. Sometimes the other person will have specialized knowledge about a topic, for instance you may have read the same book or may be into the same niche topic, and this is acceptable conversation for this zen level but usually conversation falls into overly mainstream categories that tend to categorize and stereotype. It's really really hard to have a common niche interest unless you're at an event catering to that interest so best not to bother.
Level 4: The conversation does not involve any conversation about anything taking place in the past or outside of the immediate physical area. This only usually happen as part of a shared activity and may be difficult or impossible on a plane or similar circumstances where there is little in the way of shared experience in the immediate physical area.
Figure out what Zen level you want to communicate with people at and then just don't talk unless you can achieve that zen level. Ok I made that all up right in this comment box. The main idea is to avoid any sort of conversation that would bucketize the other person into a particular social class or stereotype for as long as possible or bore them with uninteresting chatter in order to have any more fulfilling interaction. What do you guys think?