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How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

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Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#11

Post by godzillabrennus »

tboyd47 wrote: post #10

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage. Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no o…

So you advocate for less communication?

Why not create a culture that embraces having new comers ask questions in a non disruptive way?

Something like a slack channel where experienced dev's can chime in if they have time.

I'd freak out on anyone on my team if they were telling new hires not to ask questions. That's just stupid.

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#12

Post by tn_ »

tboyd47 wrote: post #10

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage. Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no o…

New programmers usually don't have any exposition on what's an acceptable amount to ask and adding snark just deters them from sticking with it.

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#13

Post by falcolas »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #11
tboyd47 wrote: post #10

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage. Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no o…

So you advocate for less communication? Why not create a culture that embraces having new comers ask questions in a non disruptive way? Something like a slack channel where experienced dev's can chime in if they have time. I'd freak out on anyone on my team if they were telling new hires not to ask questions. That's just stupid.

My experience: If you come with a question and the steps you've already taken, the research you've already done, you will rarely if ever get a poor response from developers (or at least those who are decent human beings).

So, don't start with Slack. Start with the docs, then google, and then end with Slack (even as just a confirmation of your researched solution).

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#15

Post by [deleted] »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #11
tboyd47 wrote: post #10

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage. Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no o…

So you advocate for less communication? Why not create a culture that embraces having new comers ask questions in a non disruptive way? Something like a slack channel where experienced dev's can chime in if they have time. I'd freak out on anyone on my team if they were telling new hires not to ask questions. That's just stupid.

[deleted]

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#16

Post by tboyd47 »

falcolas wrote: post #13
godzillabrennus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you advocate for less communication? Why not create a culture that embraces having new comers ask questions in a non disruptive way? Something like a slack channel where experienced dev's can chime in if they have time. I'd freak out on anyone on my team if they were telling new hires not to ask questions. That's just stupid.

My experience: If you come with a question and the steps you've already taken, the research you've already done , you will rarely if ever get a poor response from developers (or at least those who are decent human beings). So, don't start with Slack. Start with the docs, then google, and then end with Slack (even as just a confirmation of your researched solution).

Agreed. I'm not saying don't ask questions. I said "not in a way that inspires rage." Just make sure you do your due diligence first. That's important.

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#17

Post by adjkant »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #14

Most programmers are assholes because they are unhappy. Most programmers are unhappy because most software is terrible. Most software is terrible because most programmers are assholes.

I'd argue that most programmers are assholes for reasons far beyond software being terrible, and are unhappy for those other reasons, which is a much bigger conversation. The only reason I bring it up is that developers using software as an excuse to be assholes will only make the problem worse and is a cop-out for dealing with the actual issues.

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#18

Post by tboyd47 »

tn_ wrote: post #12
tboyd47 wrote: post #10

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage. Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no o…

New programmers usually don't have any exposition on what's an acceptable amount to ask and adding snark just deters them from sticking with it.

Excuse me if it comes off as snarky, but my main point is only to say that development is about three parts frustration and one part progress (and I'm being generous with the progress). You can't skip the frustration; it is what you are paid to do. Newcomers should be made aware of this, not to deter them, but to be transparent about what the job actually entails.

Re: How to avoid humiliating newcomers: A guide for advanced developers

#19

Post by blub »

What a pretentious piece of writing, I can't stand this kind of goody two-shoes attitude.

It's ok to be human and get upset every now and then. Heck, you might even take it out on someone. Apologise and move on, you don't have to become a buddhist and take the three breath vow - it's useless and unhealthy.

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