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Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

ren.zone

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Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#11

Post by blattimwind »

hapnin wrote: post #8
notavalleyman wrote: post #2

> Money, in other words, mostly measures trust. This is less obvious for precious metals or cryptocurrencies because they have an intrinsic value of their own as well Cryptocurrencies have intrinsic value? Did the author intent to write that or was it an accident? S/he has grouped precious metals, which have purposes from engineering to jewellery - with solutions to arbitrary cryptographic problems, which are useless…

The intrinsic value of a cryptocurrency is in its utility: moving an accounted and measurable unit across the internet peer to peer.

That's a property of the network (if it works, that is), and not an intrinsic value.

The answer to "What is this item [the bits comprising your private wallet key] worth on its own?" is "Nothing" for cryptocurrencies, much like a 5 Euro bill is worth essentially nothing on its own. A gold bar or a bucket full of copper cents has an intrinsic value: it's metal that can be used for many engineering purposes.

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#13

Post by seanmcdirmid »

carb wrote: post #10
ucaetano wrote: post #3

> Interestingly, the value of most currencies is measured in terms of the value of other currencies, most of which have no value other than the trust recursively vested in them by civilization. This doesn't make any sense. The value of any currency is measured constantly by its users conducting trades: when you buy a coffee, you're measuring the value of the currency used; when you pay for a haircut, you're measuring…

Well the author was also pointing out that currencies like the Barbados Dollar exist, whose exchange rate is pinned at BDS$2 = USD$1. A quick search for pinned currencies brought up this nice list: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/061015/top-excha...

A lot of curriencies are hard pegged to another (e.g. HKD to USD). However, to maintain the peg, central banks must carefully ensure that it remains true in reality, otherwise someone can make money on arbitrage.

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#14

Post by smitherfield »

Rational arithmetic is not a good choice for money, since applications that deal with money probably involve user input and so can be trivially DOS-ed. Money should use decimal arithmetic, like COBOL. If it's good enough for banks, it's good enough for you.

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#15

Post by hapnin »

blattimwind wrote: post #11
hapnin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intrinsic value of a cryptocurrency is in its utility: moving an accounted and measurable unit across the internet peer to peer.

That's a property of the network (if it works, that is), and not an intrinsic value. The answer to "What is this item [the bits comprising your private wallet key] worth on its own ?" is "Nothing" for cryptocurrencies, much like a 5 Euro bill is worth essentially nothing on its own. A gold bar or a bucket full of copper cents has an intrinsic value: it's metal that can be used for many engineering purposes.

Cryptocurrencies are predicated on networks. So is cash, wrt meatspace networks of humans. Cash is only worth anything because we can transact with it in the meatspace. Cryptocurrencies are worthless for use in the meatspace, just as physical cash is worthless on the network.

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#16

Post by marshray »

jotux wrote: post #6
notavalleyman wrote: post #2

> Money, in other words, mostly measures trust. This is less obvious for precious metals or cryptocurrencies because they have an intrinsic value of their own as well Cryptocurrencies have intrinsic value? Did the author intent to write that or was it an accident? S/he has grouped precious metals, which have purposes from engineering to jewellery - with solutions to arbitrary cryptographic problems, which are useless…

>which have purposes from engineering to jewellery Isn't using crypto as a currency equivalent to using precious metals as jewellery? Something like <10% of gold is used for industrial purposes and the rest is jewellery (superfluous personal adornment) and investment (value-storage). But compared to something like gold, cryptocurrencies at least have some valuable characteristics when used as an investment or financi…

How would one use integers as jewelry?

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#18

Post by AnimalMuppet »

blattimwind wrote: post #11
hapnin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intrinsic value of a cryptocurrency is in its utility: moving an accounted and measurable unit across the internet peer to peer.

That's a property of the network (if it works, that is), and not an intrinsic value. The answer to "What is this item [the bits comprising your private wallet key] worth on its own ?" is "Nothing" for cryptocurrencies, much like a 5 Euro bill is worth essentially nothing on its own. A gold bar or a bucket full of copper cents has an intrinsic value: it's metal that can be used for many engineering purposes.

True for copper; less true for gold.

That is: The value of copper is set by its industrial usefulness. Gold? Not so much.

The price of gold, in my view, is set primarily by worldwide demand for a short on fiat currencies. Even if you don't buy that interpretation, though, financial (and therefore non-industrial) demand pretty clearly sets the price for gold.

Re: Safe-money: Money in the type system where it belongs (2017)

#20

Post by mrleiter »

neilwilson wrote: post #19

The value of a currency is the effort required to obtain it. And transitively that boils down to time - expenditure of the finite lifespan of humans. It's a proof of burn system.

Inheritance is worthless, then. As an heir I can more or less inherit from day 0 (in some jurisdictions even before) of my living life. This means there is the possibility of me putting in zero effort, besides from being born alive, to obtain it. Yet it obviously has some worth.
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