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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#11

Post by jacob019 »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Super charisma or other abilities in all members of a group could have negative reproductive consequences and reduce the genetic fitness of that configuration, even if it's available.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#12

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Could it be argued that quite a few of those single tweaks have already occurred?

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#13

Post by rocqua »

taurath wrote: post #7
asdfasdfdavid wrote: post #2

Another HDAC inhibitor that works against autism and is easy to obtain by eating broccoli sprouts is sulforaphane: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672987/

So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate i…

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'.

The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish between the flu and tuberculosis.

But if autism is indeed a spectrum, and people are spread quite evenly over the spectrum, the partitioning stops making sense. Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem', thus research and treatment would treat that partition as the same. If this is not the underlying reality this really hinders effective treatment.

Consider how effective general medicine would be if we considered fever to be a spectrum, and treated based on what interval someones temperature fell in. That would be a disaster. Expanding such a system by including more variables (how sweaty is the patient, do they shiver) or by controlling for more confounding variables (compensating for the circadian rhythm) does not help either.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#14

Post by rocqua »

jacob019 wrote: post #11
alanh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Super charisma or other abilities in all members of a group could have negative reproductive consequences and reduce the genetic fitness of that configuration, even if it's available.

Then you might expect a balance where everyone has a low chance of expressing such a fenotype. I believe there are ideas that color-blindness has a benefit like this. The same with sickle-cell anemia.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#15

Post by amelius »

rocqua wrote: post #13
taurath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate i…

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish betwee…

Sidenote: from a charity/financial perspective it is advantageous to group different conditions under one name. Look at cancer research, which receives the most funding of all diseases, but which can really be divided into many (200+) different fundamental types.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#16

Post by exelius »

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person.

Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#17

Post by danielmg »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

As a father of someone who is about on the middle of the spectrum, I kind of agree. I couldn't separate his personality from his ASD - however if something could alleviate things like the stress he gets from sensory overload then that would be great.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#18

Post by hosh »

Whoa.

Though I often question if society should treat social deficits of autism even if such a treatment is effective without side-effects.

Another solution would be for society to be generally more neuro-inclusive. I can't help but wonder if there are synergistic benefits from being able to have different ways of experiencing the world.

(I don't have ASD; my step-daughter is on the spectrum).

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#19

Post by lev99 »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#20

Post by Jugglerofworlds »

HDAC inhibitors have been discussed before on /r/nootropics and Longecity. I was part of a group buy for Vorinostat, which is a medication with a similar mechanism of action. I only took it once and had a positive experience where I felt very "child-like", in the way that the world seemed vivid and exciting. I haven't taken it since due to concerns about interactions with some of my other medications.

The primary goal of many of the people in the group buy were fear extinction and memory enhancement. I haven't seen much discussion on it since the initial excitement.

Here are the relevant threads:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/90632-hdac-inhibition-m...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_...

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