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How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

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Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#11

Post by exabrial »

skookumchuck wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, pretty much all of the BoR is regularly under attack. Those rights have to be constantly reaffirmed.

On their defense, people mean well, but 'the road to hell did paved with good intentions' as they say.

1st Amendment is being attacked by liberals, with pronoun laws, hate speech regulations, equal opportunity laws, forced cake baking, many other things.

The 2nd is also being attacked from a variety of ways by liberals, which as said before, is well intentioned, but ultimately destructive.

Thank goodness the 3rd isn't an issue!

The 4th amendment is being attacked by both conservatives and liberals in a variety of ways. From NSA data collections on Americans under Obama, to DEA/BATF sponsored civil asset forfeiture under Bush, and unlawful searches by ICE under the current administration, this Amendment is very important but is being chipped away by both authoritarian ideologies.

Ah, our 5th amendment has been weakened by both liberals and conservatives. From No Fly lists and travel bans you can't get out of, to waiting periods on firearms, we've truly let this very important amendment become weakened.

I like all of the amendments. I don't want to see any single one of them weakened any more and some of our rights restored.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#12

Post by adrianratnapala »

dragonwriter wrote: post #8
Meekro wrote: post #6

Reading the Soviet Bill of Rights is pretty instructive because it'll show you how much such a thing is worth on its own. Here is just a subset of the rights guaranteed by the USSR Constitution: speech; press; religion (both to profess and refuse to profess); assembly (including a specific right to demonstrate); participation in lawmaking; inviolability of the person (from warrantless arrest) and of the home (from un…

Note that the rights in the Soviet Constitution have an important explicit limitation in Article 39: “Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.”

This sort of thing is common in well run democratic countries too. European constitutions are full of provisions that say "Such and such a right is inviolable, except when it's not". Or "except when it is violated according to the law".

And it works! That's because (in recent decades) the political reality in Western Europe has been basically in favour of democracy in freedom -- and so they limited basic rights only in corner cases like Holocaust denial. Constitutional texts can help people focus on what is needed for democracy and freedom (and US the Bill of Rights does a good job of this), but what really counts is how people live out the text, rather than the mechanics explicit in the text.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#14

Post by mirimir »

Meekro wrote: post #6

Reading the Soviet Bill of Rights is pretty instructive because it'll show you how much such a thing is worth on its own. Here is just a subset of the rights guaranteed by the USSR Constitution: speech; press; religion (both to profess and refuse to profess); assembly (including a specific right to demonstrate); participation in lawmaking; inviolability of the person (from warrantless arrest) and of the home (from un…

Sure. But US governments also respect those rights selectively. Consider the War on Drugs.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#15

Post by toomanybeersies »

exabrial wrote: post #11
skookumchuck wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, pretty much all of the BoR is regularly under attack. Those rights have to be constantly reaffirmed.

On their defense, people mean well, but 'the road to hell did paved with good intentions' as they say. 1st Amendment is being attacked by liberals, with pronoun laws, hate speech regulations, equal opportunity laws, forced cake baking, many other things. The 2nd is also being attacked from a variety of ways by liberals, which as said before, is well intentioned, but ultimately destructive. Thank goodness the 3rd isn'…

The first is being attacked by conservatives.

Attacking the Bill of Rights isn't exclusive to one end of the political spectrum.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#16

Post by grzm »

exabrial wrote: post #11
skookumchuck wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, pretty much all of the BoR is regularly under attack. Those rights have to be constantly reaffirmed.

On their defense, people mean well, but 'the road to hell did paved with good intentions' as they say. 1st Amendment is being attacked by liberals, with pronoun laws, hate speech regulations, equal opportunity laws, forced cake baking, many other things. The 2nd is also being attacked from a variety of ways by liberals, which as said before, is well intentioned, but ultimately destructive. Thank goodness the 3rd isn'…

I'm a big fan of the amendments as well. I think we're all better served when we focus on specific issues that we can discuss together rather than splitting us up into two camps. As long as we look at everything through a partisan lens, we're going to continue to increase the friction preventing us from finding common ground and understanding.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#17

Post by protoplant »

In the post, Magglioca says that the bill of rights was not what people of the time thought a bill of rights looked like. Well I find it is not accurate to say that since many ideas were lifted from the English Bill of Rights 1689. No standing armies in peacetime, freedom of speech of parliament, peasants bearing arms, no cruel unusual punishment, no excessive bails, no taxes without parliament. I hope that I am missing something in translation, because it is unsettling that he would overlook this. The Virginian Bill of Rights mentioned in the story took from this as well. In other words, it set a standard.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#19

Post by skookumchuck »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #13
skookumchuck wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, pretty much all of the BoR is regularly under attack. Those rights have to be constantly reaffirmed.

It wouldn't be worth having the bill of rights if they weren't. That's their entire point.

It's an interesting argument.

I sure get distressed when otherwise intelligent and educated Americans sincerely tell me: "Sure I believe in free speech, but you can't let that guy say those things!" They'll throw it all away for some insignificant gain.

Re: How We Learned to Love the Bill of Rights

#20

Post by iamdave »

mirimir wrote: post #14
Meekro wrote: post #6

Reading the Soviet Bill of Rights is pretty instructive because it'll show you how much such a thing is worth on its own. Here is just a subset of the rights guaranteed by the USSR Constitution: speech; press; religion (both to profess and refuse to profess); assembly (including a specific right to demonstrate); participation in lawmaking; inviolability of the person (from warrantless arrest) and of the home (from un…

Sure. But US governments also respect those rights selectively. Consider the War on Drugs.

And by extension, the issue of Civil Forfeiture.
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