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Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

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11–20 of 83 posts

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#11
post #6

How can I see that someone visited my site if it's served by Google's cache?

There are multiple analytics options supported with amp. It's a well-addressed problem space.

But honestly, if you're so far behind the curve that this is even a question, then amp is not for you. You've got a lot of bigger problems to solve first.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#12

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

I think there's an element of them forcing an entirely new Google standard (then favouring it in their results) on to something they could just as easily punish (slow sites) directly.

Slow sites can be sped up quite often with small optimisations and improvements and those improvements can be guided by Google tools but instead they're forcing their own new format in the name of speed.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#13
post #9

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

My guess is that they are separate services which have always been that way and people can choose not to use them from the beginning. Amp is different in that it sits in front of a lot of websites which used to work directly, it’s apples and oranges. iTunes didn’t take over any existing service or stop you from doing something you could before on the web

So then it's akamai or limelight, then. Still not a threat.

Open standard, opt-in free cdn, independent compatible alternatives; this does not sound like a hostile takeover of your freedom.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#14

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

Fun to watch whataboutism move from politics into computing.

Personally I'm about as hostile to Apple News as I am to AMP for a lot of the same reasons. And I also don't love Apple's embrace & extend approach to SMS.

I guess there was a time when I was concerned about iTunes and DRM and the network effects of an Apple music ecosystem, but I mostly stopped buying stuff through iTMS that I could get elsewhere about a decade ago and then largely ditched iTunes somewhere around 5 years ago after Apple had spent so much time "revolutionizing" the UI that it became a shambling horror of a guessing game rather than an experience, and AFAICT these days there's plenty of ways to use Apple devices for listening to music without using any of their specific apps/services.

So, yeah, I'd guess there's probably a concerned audience that isn't exactly picking on Google while giving Apple a pass.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#15

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

Google controls ~80% of online search and ads. Apple controls ~30% of the smartphone market and 10% of the laptop/PC market.

Its the same reason why Apple never gets slapped with monopoly charges. You have the option of using Android for your phone (ignoring the fact that if you value your privacy you don’t) and Windows/Linux.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#16
post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

The tragedy of it is that web browsers have never been faster - it's just that websites insist on bloating, and bloating, and bloating. It's not unusual for modern websites to have literally megabytes of pointless JavaScript. (Reminder: Super Mario 64 weighs in at 8MB. The whole game.)

AMP strikes me as a clever technical solution to a problem that doesn't need a technical solution. It just needs restraint and better web development with existing standard technologies, and ideally a strong taboo on bloated web-sites.

See also two other technologies, the existences of which damn the web: Opera Mini (cloud rendering! and it's useful!), which can only exist for as long as the web is laughably inefficient, and Reader Mode, which improves modern web-design by removing it entirely.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#17
post #6

How can I see that someone visited my site if it's served by Google's cache?

There are multiple analytics options supported with amp. It's a well-addressed problem space. But honestly, if you're so far behind the curve that this is even a question, then amp is not for you. You've got a lot of bigger problems to solve first.

The GP may or may not have bigger problems to solve, but they could be forgiven for entirely ignoring a response that simultaneously manages to provide no specific or concrete information, sound haughty, and imply that understanding of the ins & outs of working with AMP are the standard for not having to worry about some other also nonspecific (but definitely bigger!) problem.

I could assume you have bigger problems to solve than writing a stronger reply, but it's hard to spot that out to somebody who bothered to write an answer in the first place.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#18
post #6

How can I see that someone visited my site if it's served by Google's cache?

Not allowing you to directly contact people you know or work with is a feature not a bug.

Welcome to the world where Google intermediates all your future communication. No doubt for your own good.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#19
post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

The tragedy of it is that web browsers have never been faster - it's just that websites insist on bloating, and bloating, and bloating. It's not unusual for modern websites to have literally megabytes of pointless JavaScript. (Reminder: Super Mario 64 weighs in at 8MB. The whole game.) AMP strikes me as a clever technical solution to a problem that doesn't need a technical solution. It just needs restraint and better…

What people do when a website that goes popular on HN or Reddit is too slow or can't respond at all? Someone on the comments links to Google Cache and more often than not this js-less basic HTML snapshot is good enough.

AMP is just a way to do this properly and automatically. The Webdev community chooses to ignore the speed of the content delivery and Google seized the opportunity.

What can a modern webpage do for the user that 2008 webpage can't? For most of the web, the answer is nothing, all the improvements are about better tooling for the management(measure and monetize) of the webpage.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#20
post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

The tragedy of it is that web browsers have never been faster - it's just that websites insist on bloating, and bloating, and bloating. It's not unusual for modern websites to have literally megabytes of pointless JavaScript. (Reminder: Super Mario 64 weighs in at 8MB. The whole game.) AMP strikes me as a clever technical solution to a problem that doesn't need a technical solution. It just needs restraint and better…

> It just needs restraint and better web development with existing standard technologies, and ideally a strong taboo on bloated web-sites.

Restraint can't appear out of nowhere, especially when bloating the website frequently works - more ad revenue, more information about existing visitors and potential new customers.

These needs won't just disappear, so yes, the problem needs a technical solution.

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