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Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

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Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#11

Post by silverdemon »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

OMFG. their hiring process is ... worrying. An online test, phone screen, hour of paired hacking then a conditional offer and a "hack week" - a weeks try out. I balk at doing screening tests like hackerrank. I don't get how you can expect someone to spend a probationary week, with no real guarantee of work. they stop the job hunt, tell other employers no thanks, and bang 50/50 pass rate perhaps? I don't get it. Hirin…

Their hiring process is an instant reject for me. At least I now know not to waste a week of my life applying to work there.

Seriously, what is wrong with these people? Only hiring the desperate or unemployable does not sound like a winning strategy.

If they want a week of work from me, they can pay my contracting rate for a week. Or they can "stroll on".

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#12

Post by walshemj »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

OMFG. their hiring process is ... worrying. An online test, phone screen, hour of paired hacking then a conditional offer and a "hack week" - a weeks try out. I balk at doing screening tests like hackerrank. I don't get how you can expect someone to spend a probationary week, with no real guarantee of work. they stop the job hunt, tell other employers no thanks, and bang 50/50 pass rate perhaps? I don't get it. Hirin…

Yes hacker rank and the like are the result of the credentialist culture, which is a negative influence on the industry as a whole hiring people based on rote learning and memorisation does not really get you the best candidates.

You just get cheap and desperate people with good memory who are unlikely to do the research required and produce a solution when they come up against a solution they haven't rote learned.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#13

Post by peterlk »

I strongly (very strongly) disagree with the idea of a "hack week". Having multiple rounds of interviewing and a programming challenge seems reasonable to me, but if you think you've found someone who is the right fit, hire them. Everyone makes mistakes, but have some courage, and be willing to fire fast if it isn't a good fit. People want to work at places that value them, and "conditionally" hiring someone does not convey that message

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#14

Post by walshemj »

arenaninja wrote: post #9
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

OMFG. their hiring process is ... worrying. An online test, phone screen, hour of paired hacking then a conditional offer and a "hack week" - a weeks try out. I balk at doing screening tests like hackerrank. I don't get how you can expect someone to spend a probationary week, with no real guarantee of work. they stop the job hunt, tell other employers no thanks, and bang 50/50 pass rate perhaps? I don't get it. Hirin…

I'm in the same boat. I take a hard pass on any company/exercise that can't be done in the span of 2 hours. The one time I took one that was 4 hours it was (luckily for me) a disaster

Interesting I just did a presentation for a job interview and threw it together in Apparently it was better than other presentations (even though I didn't get the job) I suspect that I seem to have become to good at my specialisation

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#15

Post by bitL »

arenaninja wrote: post #9
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

OMFG. their hiring process is ... worrying. An online test, phone screen, hour of paired hacking then a conditional offer and a "hack week" - a weeks try out. I balk at doing screening tests like hackerrank. I don't get how you can expect someone to spend a probationary week, with no real guarantee of work. they stop the job hunt, tell other employers no thanks, and bang 50/50 pass rate perhaps? I don't get it. Hirin…

I'm in the same boat. I take a hard pass on any company/exercise that can't be done in the span of 2 hours. The one time I took one that was 4 hours it was (luckily for me) a disaster

There is one company in Hamburg that sends their candidates a test from Codility whose difficulty is way higher than the ones from Google/FB, all for positions that pay between 40-100k (heavy bias to lower bound), in office where utmost discipline is required. They use bad results in negotiation to lower offers and then are surprised when most candidates walk away and they can't get any people working for them.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#16

Post by arenaninja »

bitL wrote: post #15
arenaninja wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same boat. I take a hard pass on any company/exercise that can't be done in the span of 2 hours. The one time I took one that was 4 hours it was (luckily for me) a disaster

There is one company in Hamburg that sends their candidates a test from Codility whose difficulty is way higher than the ones from Google/FB, all for positions that pay between 40-100k (heavy bias to lower bound), in office where utmost discipline is required. They use bad results in negotiation to lower offers and then are surprised when most candidates walk away and they can't get any people working for them.

Yep, many companies are choosing beggars; wondering why they can't attract/retain talent. I actually saw a megacorp quoting some study that said millenials "...don't care about money and are looking for fulfillment". While I'm sure that's true for some percentage of any population, I'd be surprised if they raised their wages and their hiring troubles persisted.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#17

Post by edmundhuber »

Companies employing the strategy of "everyone has to take the test" are missing out on great candidates. The best employees respect their own time enough to not spend time on an exam/busywork. The best employees often also have copious Github repos that you could read up on, or quiz them about.

But maybe the "take home test" strategy is about identifying candidates that will sacrifice their free time for your company.

No matter how you look at it, it doesn't look good.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#18

Post by edmundhuber »

peterlk wrote: post #13

I strongly (very strongly) disagree with the idea of a "hack week". Having multiple rounds of interviewing and a programming challenge seems reasonable to me, but if you think you've found someone who is the right fit, hire them. Everyone makes mistakes, but have some courage, and be willing to fire fast if it isn't a good fit. People want to work at places that value them, and "conditionally" hiring someone does not…

It's part of the continual corporate drive to push risks off the company and onto the employee. No self-respecting employee should do a take home exam, or do a "hack week", because every time you do, you normalize and reward this behavior.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#19

Post by tintor »

arenaninja wrote: post #9
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

OMFG. their hiring process is ... worrying. An online test, phone screen, hour of paired hacking then a conditional offer and a "hack week" - a weeks try out. I balk at doing screening tests like hackerrank. I don't get how you can expect someone to spend a probationary week, with no real guarantee of work. they stop the job hunt, tell other employers no thanks, and bang 50/50 pass rate perhaps? I don't get it. Hirin…

I'm in the same boat. I take a hard pass on any company/exercise that can't be done in the span of 2 hours. The one time I took one that was 4 hours it was (luckily for me) a disaster

SpaceX has 4 hour test for software engineers, but it can be done in 1 hour.

Re: Building and Running a Geographically Distributed Engineering Team

#20

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

On the "running" side of things, lately I've been looking for solutions to fact that distributed teams can't gather in front of an actual whiteboard for discussion / design.

I've been surprised by how hard it is to find cheap, effective alternatives. Cost is a particular concern when each person works from his/her own location.

(1) At the high end, you have dedicated large-screen devices with dedicated software, like Google Jamboard. Gorgeous, awesome, very expensive. $5k+ USD.

(2) Next step down in terms of price and glitz: the combination of a real whiteboard + a projector + special hardware for monitoring pens and/or hands. About $1k USD if you have to buy the whiteboard, and already have the computer.

(3) Next step down in terms of size, but about the same price: tether a touch-/pen- sensitive display to your computer. E.g., iPad Pro, or Wacom Cintiq or a cheap knockoff. ~$400-$1200 USD, depending on device and size. Pros: Portable. Cons: Much smaller area to draw.

(4) Status quo: Each person sits at his/her desk, using a mouse or (if they don't mind smudges and/or gorilla arms) a touch-sensitive laptop screen. Pros: Ubiquitous. Cons: Not fluid way to draw / annotate for most people.

* Note: The breakdown above focuses on HW. I'm assuming that the SW side is at least somewhat solved by online, shared docs such as Google Draw, Realtimeboard, etc.

* Note 2: A lot of the online collaboration sites are a hard sell in corporate environments if sensitive information is to be shared.

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