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NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

nytimes.com

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Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#11

Post by TaylorAlexander »

gnarbarian wrote: post #4
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

How about a moon base we could use as a base camp for missions to the outer solar system or mars? H3 mining is another thought. Edit: other ideas * Autonomous vehicles sent ahead of time to build habitats for people. * Large underground bases dug into the bedrock positioned at the poles collecting solar energy. * Long tracks to launch things into space/earth electromagnetically. * Mining of ice which could get split…

I guess that feels a little like England setting up a base in Greenland as a supply depot to stop at before crossing the Atlantic to the new world. There’s way more stuff at their home base so it’s hard to see how adding a far off stop in a desolate place will help.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#12

Post by lorenzhs »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #9
lorenzhs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a good point to be made about manned missions to the moon. There are so many things we don’t know about the moon. See, for example, ESA’s “moon village” plans. The General Director gave a talk at 33c3 that—among other things—makes the case for prolonged human presence on the moon for scientific purposes: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8406-the_moon_and_european_space...

It makes me happy that someone from the ESA gave a talk at 33c3.

Not just anyone, the Director General! There was another talk by someone from ESA (I don’t remember his name) on the feasibility of a moon elevator (lunar surface to Lagrange point 1 iirc), which would be possible with current materials if we could just figure out how to get them there...

I was in the audience for both and it was absolutely amazing!

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#13

Post by vkou »

gnarbarian wrote: post #4
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

How about a moon base we could use as a base camp for missions to the outer solar system or mars? H3 mining is another thought. Edit: other ideas * Autonomous vehicles sent ahead of time to build habitats for people. * Large underground bases dug into the bedrock positioned at the poles collecting solar energy. * Long tracks to launch things into space/earth electromagnetically. * Mining of ice which could get split…

Practical applications for He3 have been 30 years away for the past 50 years.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#14

Post by coolso »

craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

> I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige."

Not even for the inspiration? I mean look at how everyone reacted to SpaceX's recent launching of a Tesla into space. Everyone thought it was super cool and inspiring - and it was. Now imagine how much cooler it would be to send people to the moon again in the modern age. Yeah it happened before but that was a long, long time ago, and may as well have never happened for probably 3/4 of the people in America.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#16

Post by zipwitch »

gnarbarian wrote: post #4
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

How about a moon base we could use as a base camp for missions to the outer solar system or mars? H3 mining is another thought. Edit: other ideas * Autonomous vehicles sent ahead of time to build habitats for people. * Large underground bases dug into the bedrock positioned at the poles collecting solar energy. * Long tracks to launch things into space/earth electromagnetically. * Mining of ice which could get split…

SF author Charles Stross has a couple of damning criticisms of He3 mining on the moon, found here: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/08/moonshin...

In short:

Nobody's built any useful (for power generation) fusion reactor yet, much less one running He3.

There isn't actually much He3 on the moon, just more than here on Earth. It's doubtful that mining on the moon would be cheaper than just making it here.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#17

Post by throwawayjava »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #7
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

I feel in many ways that this is how NASA works. One leader says “My predecessor has no vision for a positive future. We must go beyond low Earth orbit and explore the solar system. I’m announcing renewed funding for programs that will send humans to Mars in 25 years. I’m introducing a bill that adds $2B to the NASA budget.” And then the subsequent leader says “My predecessor loved spending money even while the peopl…

TBF the military is the only jobs program whose recipients are unimpeachable.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#18

Post by TeMPOraL »

lorenzhs wrote: post #8
gnarbarian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a moon base we could use as a base camp for missions to the outer solar system or mars? H3 mining is another thought. Edit: other ideas * Autonomous vehicles sent ahead of time to build habitats for people. * Large underground bases dug into the bedrock positioned at the poles collecting solar energy. * Long tracks to launch things into space/earth electromagnetically. * Mining of ice which could get split…

Unless you can make propellant on the moon, that’s going to be less economical than going directly. There’s nothing to be gained by going down another (albeit not very deep) gravity well. The base camp analogy doesn’t really apply.

You could make propellant on the Moon (from water).

The Moon is also a good place to test Mars-related procedures (couple dozen hours of travel beats couple dozen months in case of an emergency).

Finally, I imagine building a telescope on the "dark side" is astronomers' wet dream.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#19

Post by Maybestring »

gnarbarian wrote: post #4
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

How about a moon base we could use as a base camp for missions to the outer solar system or mars? H3 mining is another thought. Edit: other ideas * Autonomous vehicles sent ahead of time to build habitats for people. * Large underground bases dug into the bedrock positioned at the poles collecting solar energy. * Long tracks to launch things into space/earth electromagnetically. * Mining of ice which could get split…

Some lunar base advocates push the "exploration base camp" narrative. But I find it disengenuius. It's too far away in terms of energy cost, and too close in terms of travel time.

Re: NASA Budgets for a Trip to the Moon

#20

Post by whatshisface »

webkike wrote: post #3
craftyguy wrote: post #2

> The Trump administration is also looking to trim the budget of NASA’s earth science directorate > The nearly $1.8 billion budget for that part of NASA would be about 6.5 percent lower than what was enacted for fiscal year 2017 Donald seems to be stuck in the Cold War. I've not heard of one good reason for him wanting to send Americans back to the Moon other than "prestige." There are much more valuable scientific t…

Maybe it's a smokescreen to divert resources away from potentially damaging climate research?

It'd be hard for additional climate research to do anything (politically) that the existing climate research hasn't done already. Although, I understand how there might be some element of "Hah! Got'em!" among some groups.

Overall, I see this as a move towards globally inspiring national pride projects and away from the more subtle and less-expensive "only PhDs understand how this is really important," tasks. It really fits the personality and promises of the current president.

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