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America Is Not a Democracy

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#11
post #4
post #2

Never has been.

Yes. It is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Why not read the article and engage with the idea of democracy in the sense it's being used? Anyone could have written this comment and I don't see what it adds to the discussion.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#13
I'm not sure the first example where the town failed to buy out a bad water company supports author's argument.

The article hinted that the company was doing something malicious that on the voting day, "locals who had toiled on the issue for years noticed many newcomers", who eventually voted the idea down. It almost sound like those newcomers were brought in by the company to influence votes in its favor.

But in my experience with condo boards and other small democratic organizations, there are always a small but vocal group who tend to run the show, while the majority just carry on with their lives without paying too much attention to the local politics. That does not mean those people have no opinion on major issues, and their opinions tend to be revealed at those kind of major votes.

It sucks if you worked for years to get your ideas through, only to be voted down by the majority. But is this really a failure of democracy?

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#14

I'm not sure the first example where the town failed to buy out a bad water company supports author's argument. The article hinted that the company was doing something malicious that on the voting day, "locals who had toiled on the issue for years noticed many newcomers", who eventually voted the idea down. It almost sound like those newcomers were brought in by the company to influence votes in its favor. But in my…

I guess the trouble, in my mind, is that these instances are often grey enough that a justification like this could come up, but there is a tendency, in aggregate, for things to break one way. For an example that is probably familiar to HN readers, consider municipal broadband.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#15
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In spite of the name, North Korea is a dictatorship.

I agree, that was my point.

Well then it doesn't really seem to answer the argument that a "representative democracy" and "direct democracy" can plausibly be classified as two forms of democracy.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#16
America doesn't have a democracy problem--it has a republic problem. Clearly, a republic is failing the people, mostly out of its own design. The founding fathers' ideas may have worked in the ages of slavery, and Jim Crow, where exploitation actually led to great wealth creation, but they do not work now. They work great at keeping the people down, in check, and out of politics, just as the founders designed. Really, the main problem here is that Americans stupidly think that they live in a democracy when this has never been the case. Obviously, America is not a democracy. It's always been a republic and people are now realizing just how oppressive a republic ruled by bribes from the elite is, now that the main concerns are less about oppressing minorities but simply about the survival of the majority, something that is no longer guaranteed. Let's face it, American government isn't about to change soon, so it'd be in our best interest for the people who think we live in a democracy to realize that we don't. After all, if you don't think you have a problem, a solution is impossible.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#17
The author makes sense initially but towards the end seems to be attacking American institutions like the Supreme court. That was odd.

America was founded on a messy system where not everyone got what they wanted. It was always a compromise.

However, this messy system did bring us out of slavery into the modern era. Now though one of the last abominations of this messy system is causing most of the issues in the republic. I wonder why the author does not touch the subject of "Electoral College".

The "Electoral College" elected both "George Bush" and "Trump" subverting the will of the majority. The first president led us into an illegal war that enriched his corporate buddies. The second one will be judged by history.

In my opinion, until we get rid of the "Electoral College" America will never be a true democracy.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#18

The author makes sense initially but towards the end seems to be attacking American institutions like the Supreme court. That was odd. America was founded on a messy system where not everyone got what they wanted. It was always a compromise. However, this messy system did bring us out of slavery into the modern era. Now though one of the last abominations of this messy system is causing most of the issues in the repu…

Judicial review was invented by Federalists specifically to subvert Jefferson really. It's in some sense an antidemocratic institution.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, that was my point.

Well then it doesn't really seem to answer the argument that a "representative democracy" and "direct democracy" can plausibly be classified as two forms of democracy.

Give all the voting power to one person.

Re: America Is Not a Democracy

#20

The author makes sense initially but towards the end seems to be attacking American institutions like the Supreme court. That was odd. America was founded on a messy system where not everyone got what they wanted. It was always a compromise. However, this messy system did bring us out of slavery into the modern era. Now though one of the last abominations of this messy system is causing most of the issues in the repu…

Judicial review was invented by Federalists specifically to subvert Jefferson really. It's in some sense an antidemocratic institution.

This is my whole point, it's a messy system. You can weigh the Electoral College and Supreme court then, decide which one is more anti-democratic?
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