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LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

linuxboot.org

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Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#11

Post by ganshun »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #7
mikepurvis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar philosophy to Petitboot, for which the rationale is given here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQueOHKO58M Obviously it's a heavy weight solution, but the idea of having more drivers and better support is compelling— it's a much easier path to exotic boot setups, eg over wifi, off a SAN, whatever.

why boot linux then boot linux again, rather than just booting linux once?

The current way an x86 platform is booted to linux today uses mostly closed source UEFI DXE drivers, so the current boot flow is really (simplified) like this:

UEFI DXE loads disk/network -> Linux

We're doing Linux (with commonly used open source drivers)-> Linux

It's possible that if your end goal is a Linux system without too many requirements, you could stop at the first Linux system without ever booting the second. However the bios rom memory is pretty small, and we're mostly working with about 4-8mb of free space left not including the ME region or UEFI PEI.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#12

Post by mevile »

euyyn wrote: post #4
Palomides wrote: post #2

wait what? using a whole linux kernel as firmware before booting another OS to improve speed, reliability, security? does this seem strange to anyone else?

Check Ron Minnich's talk explaining the why: https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20wit... (The video of the presentation is linked in the OP). There's already two and a half obscure OS's running underneath the OS for booting. So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

Firmware with a built in web server is pretty spooky. Why do they have that?

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#13

Post by hugelgupf »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #7
mikepurvis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar philosophy to Petitboot, for which the rationale is given here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQueOHKO58M Obviously it's a heavy weight solution, but the idea of having more drivers and better support is compelling— it's a much easier path to exotic boot setups, eg over wifi, off a SAN, whatever.

why boot linux then boot linux again, rather than just booting linux once?

Chances are you don't want to re-flash your firmware on your servers just to change what kernel you run in production. The kernel in flash also has space constraints that will make it a pretty small kernel with a lot of features turned off.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#14

Post by kodablah »

euyyn wrote: post #4
Palomides wrote: post #2

wait what? using a whole linux kernel as firmware before booting another OS to improve speed, reliability, security? does this seem strange to anyone else?

Check Ron Minnich's talk explaining the why: https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20wit... (The video of the presentation is linked in the OP). There's already two and a half obscure OS's running underneath the OS for booting. So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

> So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

I think the concern is about "lean". I don't think there's a lot of code yet, but I do see it will use http://u-root.tk/.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#16

Post by euyyn »

hugelgupf wrote: post #13
throwaway2048 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why boot linux then boot linux again, rather than just booting linux once?

Chances are you don't want to re-flash your firmware on your servers just to change what kernel you run in production. The kernel in flash also has space constraints that will make it a pretty small kernel with a lot of features turned off.

Tannenbaum is spinning in his chair.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#17

Post by AceJohnny2 »

mevile wrote: post #12
euyyn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check Ron Minnich's talk explaining the why: https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20wit... (The video of the presentation is linked in the OP). There's already two and a half obscure OS's running underneath the OS for booting. So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

Firmware with a built in web server is pretty spooky. Why do they have that?

To administer a fleet of computers remotely. HTTP is a widely-implemented and tested protocol that fits the problem domain well.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#18

Post by y0ssar1an »

mevile wrote: post #12
euyyn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check Ron Minnich's talk explaining the why: https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20wit... (The video of the presentation is linked in the OP). There's already two and a half obscure OS's running underneath the OS for booting. So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

Firmware with a built in web server is pretty spooky. Why do they have that?

Most UEFI implementations have a network stack these days. It's horrible.
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