TL;DR: With existing technology it’s tough to detect oxygen on smaller far-away planets. However, what we could instead look for is a combination of gases that likely means presence of life on earlier stages, before oxygen becomes abundant in the atmosphere. (The assumption is that the alien life we might find would likely be on early stages of development anyway.) This research is about how such a combination of gas…
A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
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Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#12The fermi paradox bothered me quite a bit, like all paradoxes and they should bother everybody. They are a flag that something does not add up and there must be some sort of wrong assumption somewhere. As most of our combined "knowledge" does not add up correctly just one example is quantum mechanics and relativity - no, they do not add and therefor need higher dimensions to have a model (a emergency hatch). It is qu…
It's not really a paradox, right? It's just a big equation and we're guessing at the variables.
> If an extraterrestrial civilization has a SETI project similar to our own, could they detect signals from Earth?
> In general, no. Most earthly transmissions are too weak to be found by equipment similar to ours at the distance of even the nearest star. But there are some important exceptions. High-powered radars and the Arecibo broadcast of 1974 (which lasted for only three minutes) could be detected at distances of tens to hundreds of light-years with a setup similar to our best SETI experiments.
It always seemed odd to me that people call this a paradox.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#13TL;DR: With existing technology it’s tough to detect oxygen on smaller far-away planets. However, what we could instead look for is a combination of gases that likely means presence of life on earlier stages, before oxygen becomes abundant in the atmosphere. (The assumption is that the alien life we might find would likely be on early stages of development anyway.) This research is about how such a combination of gas…
I think this is a step in the right direction, but it still has the central issue that looking for oxygen rich planets (or any atmosphere with a disproportionately high quantity of some suitable agent for reduction (respiration). We didn't even get around to the whole respiration thing on this planet for quite a long time, and there's no requisite that ATP/ respiration is the direction life is going to take, and equa…
Based on the article I linked in my other comment I would say that on oxygen-rich planets, respiration is likely to happen simply because life needs to find a way to deal with it's toxicity, or perish. Although that presupposes that photosynthesis is inevitable, which also doesn't have to be true.
I kind of wonder how much we truly know about the strength of lock-in effects of evolution - of how much life is "stuck" with old hacks that we can no longer get rid of or that lead to dead ends. I doubt we'd ever evolve avian lungs from where we are now, for example. I know there are examples like that all over the place, but just how strong is the effect?
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not a scientist by any means, but since childhood when I was first exposed to the fact that life on Earth needs oxygen (and many other things, in extremely basic terms) to exist, I've been thinking to myself what if there are other distant planets where life has bootstrapped itself from completely different (or maybe opposite) components and conditions. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I in biology and p…
I think the problem there is simply the fact that it isn't knowable. If there is a way for life to be that different, how do you look for it? My first statement is likely stronger than it needs to be. My main question back to you is, how do you look for something that you imagine may exist, but couldn't say how?
I certainly agree with you, thus seeking for life similar than ours is the only feasible way to spend time in deep space research; we cannot look for something different, because we don't know what to look for.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#15The fermi paradox bothered me quite a bit, like all paradoxes and they should bother everybody. They are a flag that something does not add up and there must be some sort of wrong assumption somewhere. As most of our combined "knowledge" does not add up correctly just one example is quantum mechanics and relativity - no, they do not add and therefor need higher dimensions to have a model (a emergency hatch). It is qu…
It's not really a paradox, right? It's just a big equation and we're guessing at the variables.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#16Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#17Citation: Joshua Krissansen-Totton; Stephanie Olson; David C. Catling; Science Advances 24 Jan 2018.
Link: https://dx.doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aao5747
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.aao5747
Abstract: Chemical disequilibrium in planetary atmospheres has been proposed as a generalized method for detecting life on exoplanets through remote spectroscopy. Among solar system planets with substantial atmospheres, the modern Earth has the largest thermodynamic chemical disequilibrium due to the presence of life. However, how this disequilibrium changed over time and, in particular, the biogenic disequilibria maintained in the anoxic Archean or less oxic Proterozoic eons are unknown. We calculate the atmosphere-ocean disequilibrium in the Precambrian using conservative proxy- and model-based estimates of early atmospheric and oceanic compositions. We omit crustal solids because subsurface composition is not detectable on exoplanets, unlike above-surface volatiles. We find that (i) disequilibrium increased through time in step with the rise of oxygen; (ii) both the Proterozoic and Phanerozoic may have had remotely detectable biogenic disequilibria due to the coexistence of O2, N2, and liquid water; and (iii) the Archean had a biogenic disequilibrium caused by the coexistence of N2, CH4, CO2, and liquid water, which, for an exoplanet twin, may be remotely detectable. On the basis of this disequilibrium, we argue that the simultaneous detection of abundant CH4 and CO2 in a habitable exoplanet’s atmosphere is a potential biosignature. Specifically, we show that methane mixing ratios greater than 10−3 are potentially biogenic, whereas those exceeding 10−2 are likely biogenic due to the difficulty in maintaining large abiotic methane fluxes to support high methane levels in anoxic atmospheres. Biogenicity would be strengthened by the absence of abundant CO, which should not coexist in a biological scenario.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#18What is intelligence in the context of extraterrestrial life? I posit that we have no good model for what intelligence actually is, and that it makes no sense to assume any alien lifeform would share our goals of seeking knowledge, reproduction, preservation, or "living well". These are goals tied up very much with how life on this planet evolved. What if instead of life being on a one-dimensional axis of "intelligence", each isolated biome evolves unique properties for continued existence on its own planet, with very little overlap? What makes our "intelligence" special or even desirable, outside of furthering our own evolutionarily programmed goals? Take those very specific goals away, and intelligence becomes something without a definition.
This leads to a more fundamental question. What is life in the context of extraterrestrial life? How do we define success for an alien lifeform? Its continued existence? ...But in what form? Over what timescale? On what physical scale? How do we even know if any life we may find is alive or dead? I think these are not pointless philosophical questions, but something that should guide our efforts. How would we even recognize life if we found some? Are we even looking for life, or are we merely looking for life similar to Earth? Surely Earth-similar life would be much more rare than just life, but we seem to think "life" will exist on other planets with function similar to Earth, if not form. Why assume this? A lot of Earth's life's functioning is derived from how it evolved and how it's composed.
I think this may be part of the answer to the Fermi Paradox. Perhaps it's a faulty assumption that intelligent life would want things like we do, and perhaps it's a faulty assumption that intelligence is even a real thing, in a context outside of Earth. Perhaps it's also faulty to assume that all life will have evolutionary goals similar to Earth's.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#19I'm going to try to put into words something about our methods of hunting for alien life that has always bothered me, and I'm probably going to fail. What is intelligence in the context of extraterrestrial life? I posit that we have no good model for what intelligence actually is, and that it makes no sense to assume any alien lifeform would share our goals of seeking knowledge, reproduction, preservation, or "living…
At the moment I think the idea that we're only looking for life that fits some definition of success is specious, we're looking for any life we can find! It happens that a big, spread out civilization that looks like us is more likely to emit something we can see, be it atmospheric, electromagnetic, etc, just by nature of being in more places in space and having a larger footprint.
There are astrobiologists who spend a lot of time thinking about what life may look like, but when it comes to where to put limited resources, we start with what we know to look for (us), and go from there.
You might be interested in the book 'weird life' by David Toomey, which tries to theorize about what some more exotic living things might look like in the galaxy, and expounds on some of these definitional questions.
Re: A New Recipe for Hunting Alien Life
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a step in the right direction, but it still has the central issue that looking for oxygen rich planets (or any atmosphere with a disproportionately high quantity of some suitable agent for reduction (respiration). We didn't even get around to the whole respiration thing on this planet for quite a long time, and there's no requisite that ATP/ respiration is the direction life is going to take, and equa…
> there's no requisite that ATP/ respiration is the direction life is going to take Based on the article I linked in my other comment I would say that on oxygen-rich planets, respiration is likely to happen simply because life needs to find a way to deal with it's toxicity, or perish. Although that presupposes that photosynthesis is inevitable, which also doesn't have to be true. I kind of wonder how much we truly kn…