The Eternal Mainframe (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Eternal Mainframe (2013)

#11

Post by mikestew » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #8

klodolph wrote: post #2

It's not paying by the hour that was the problem, it was the huge capex and million dollar service contracts that made people want freedom. In that sense, cloud is the opposite of mainframe: instead of, "Here, spend a million dollars and get locked into a service contract," it's, "Here, spend $0 up front and just pay for usage, then leave whenever you want."

> It's not paying by the hour that was the problem, it was the huge capex and million dollar service contracts that made people want freedom. In that sense, cloud is the opposite of mainframe: Actually, it was identical according to you description. Today, there is the decision of on-prem vs of remote computing, which was the same decision then. > instead of, "Here, spend a million dollars and get locked into a servi…

There have been articles posted here on HN about companies that moved to the cloud for savings, grew their business, and eventually left their cloud provider due to high costs.

I've never been in a position to find out the hard way, but that's how "the cloud" always struck me. "Have access to the computing power of a multimillion dollar mainframe w/o buying the mainframe!" But if/when you actually need and can afford a multimillion dollar mainframe (or equivalent), cloud pricing might not be much savings.

Re: The Eternal Mainframe (2013)

#12

Post by yarrel » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #6

> This is why “free” and open source software (FOSS) will not help us. A software license touches on the software, not on the human relationships which the software mediates. It is those relationships that lock us into positions where Zuckerberg's foot is on our necks. I have never heard such a succinct reason why Stallman's crusade against proprietary software will not work. I will remember this.

Succinct but wrong.

Here's Stallman in 2010:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

Re: The Eternal Mainframe (2013)

#13

Post by romwell » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 10:13 PM UTC

>Those who continue to do significant work offline will become the exception; meaning they will be an electoral minority. With so much effort being put into web apps, they may even be seen as eccentrics; meaning there may not be much sympathy for their needs in the halls of power

Already happened, unfortunately. Google's ecosystem, is tuned to constantly nudge you towards the cloud. My pet peeve is their "discontinuing" of Picasa (offline photo manager/editor/viewer) and removing the download links from their websites, and peddling Google Photos (cloud service) as a "replacement". It also takes mental effort to prevent photos from going to the cloud when you get a new phone.

Re: The Eternal Mainframe (2013)

#14

Post by klodolph » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #8

klodolph wrote: post #2

It's not paying by the hour that was the problem, it was the huge capex and million dollar service contracts that made people want freedom. In that sense, cloud is the opposite of mainframe: instead of, "Here, spend a million dollars and get locked into a service contract," it's, "Here, spend $0 up front and just pay for usage, then leave whenever you want."

> It's not paying by the hour that was the problem, it was the huge capex and million dollar service contracts that made people want freedom. In that sense, cloud is the opposite of mainframe: Actually, it was identical according to you description. Today, there is the decision of on-prem vs of remote computing, which was the same decision then. > instead of, "Here, spend a million dollars and get locked into a servi…

> Actually, it was identical according to you description. Today, there is the decision of on-prem vs of remote computing, which was the same decision then.

No, it wasn't the same decision. With cloud I can use as much or as little cloud resources as I'd like, and I only pay for what I use. Back in the day, remote computing was not like that.

> The huge capex and million dollar service contracts still exist today, for example.

Right, that's exactly what I was saying. Cloud offers an alternative to huge capex, which is the biggest drawback of mainframes, not counting the fact mainframes are difficult to second-source.