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Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

open.buffer.com

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#11
post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

What about living cost? I agree the difference now is higher than adjusted for living cost, but it's really unfair for someone living in the high cost area to get paid the same salary as someone who need to spend only a 5th of that to get the same quality of life.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#12
I find the idea of equity that is quickly spreading deeply flawed.

Equity is not equality, which is giving everybody the same opportunities, like the same starting salary and the same objective performance reviews (which I fully support).

Equity means equality of outcome regardless of merits. It means you have to actively discriminate against your most productive members and reward others for their poor choices.

This usually has two effects: the most productive people leave for places that reward their productivity and others have no incentive of being more productive [1]

You can see this in their formula:

* Location base: did you chose to live in a place that cost more? No problem. Here is a bunch of money completely unrelated to your performance.

* Cost of living correction: we didn't reward you enough for your expensive choices, so here is some more money on top of that.

* Loyalty: did you stay here for a long time, maybe because you have no other choice, or because we give you money to live in an expensive place? Here is another bunch of money again unrelated to your performance.

At least they have multipliers for role value and experience, which sort of reward the ability of each individual.

But what if a person is more productive than others in the same role with the same experience? Can they negotiate a higher salary? Given the existence of a formula, I doubt. Although I might be wrong.

And yes, these people could be promoted, but there are not enough higher positions for everyone (there is only one team lead in each team), not everybody has the skills for a different role (managing people is different from writing code) and not everyone has even interest in changing roles.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#14
post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

What about living cost? I agree the difference now is higher than adjusted for living cost, but it's really unfair for someone living in the high cost area to get paid the same salary as someone who need to spend only a 5th of that to get the same quality of life.

That's the thing, you don't get the same quality of life. If you're in the valley, you have many orders of magnitude greater job liquidity than anywhere else, which is why you're paying the living cost premium. Otherwise, why would you live in a high-cost area?

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#15
To me, this seems like it will ensure your company only ever has average developers.

A good developer can negotiate a bette rate if he wants, or at the least, he'll be offered gigs at above average rates. By sticking to the exact market average according to their salary surveys, they're only able to select from the list of candidates who don't meet the above criteria. That is, the below average ones, and the occasional good one who has never been told what he's worth.

I've written about this in the past:

http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/developers-should-lear...

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#16
post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

Tough the word isn't fair

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#17
post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

Basecamp recently started paying all employees SF salaries : https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-... They are a class act, I'm not aware of any other company that does this.

That comes across to me really strange. Labor is a market just like bananas or mobile phone data. How does it make sense to pay the ceiling price of all markets, everywhere?

I'm all for personally earning more money, but this also disproportionately rewards people who live in cheap places.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#18
post #8
post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

Ya.. I don't get how they can call this a "remote-first" approach or adheres to "Do the Right Thing" for the employees The reason these high cost of living places exist is because they are in high demand due to all the benefits. Someone living in North Dakota (sorry anyone who is, I'm sure it is great!) won't have all the culture, food, weather, entertainment, night life, etc of someone living in the bay area. A "Do…

If people were truly paid for what they did and not where they were, this would probably exclude most Bay Area people since they're at the top of the market. Perhaps your company has adjusted to the normalcy of SF rates?

OTOH, location matters a lot. Otherwise your company wouldn't be in the Bay Area. Centers of gravity are a thing. Why not pay for location? Even if an employee is remote only, if they network well where they are, it's worth paying for location.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basecamp recently started paying all employees SF salaries : https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-... They are a class act, I'm not aware of any other company that does this.

That comes across to me really strange. Labor is a market just like bananas or mobile phone data. How does it make sense to pay the ceiling price of all markets, everywhere? I'm all for personally earning more money, but this also disproportionately rewards people who live in cheap places.

That's why the smart remote developers live in cheap places. It's the rational choice, since your bill rate is determined by the work you do, not the place you do it. The choice of whether to be disproportionately rewarded is yours, not the employer's. It costs them the same either way.

They do have places where your value is tied to your location. They're called offices.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about living cost? I agree the difference now is higher than adjusted for living cost, but it's really unfair for someone living in the high cost area to get paid the same salary as someone who need to spend only a 5th of that to get the same quality of life.

That's the thing, you don't get the same quality of life. If you're in the valley, you have many orders of magnitude greater job liquidity than anywhere else, which is why you're paying the living cost premium. Otherwise, why would you live in a high-cost area?

There are a zillion reasons to live in high cost areas aside from job liquidity.

The magic of concentrations of people is that the advantages scale faster than population growth because of the network effect.

Which, separately, is why cities are awesome and population density is a good thing for the planet and most people, even if it upsets some people that they can't have a big yard.

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