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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#11

Post by iainmerrick »

junkscience2017 wrote: post #5
jacobolus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: the downvoters win. Consider my (neutral/non-normative, but apparently controversial) comment deleted/retracted. Edit #2: If you keep further downvoting a comment that already explicitly says to consider itself deleted, you are a jackass. Please flag it instead.

No, foreign students are keeping UC corrupt. UC has been plagued by scandal after scandal, horrendous waste, graft, patronage...etc etc The UC system needs more oversight, not more funny money. Cal had enough money to build a gorgeous football stadium. They have enough money to fund the Chancellor's alleged slush fund. California residents have an extremely high tax burden. They are doing their part. UC needs to be c…

You make it sound like foreign students are stealing resources from the US. To the contrary, they pay a lot for the privilege of studying, and they're likely to try to immigrate later -- and even if you're anti-immigration, it's madness to be against young, educated, skilled immigrants who've experienced your country at an impressionable age.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#12

Post by junkscience2017 »

sbuccini wrote: post #7
junkscience2017 wrote: post #2

Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. The same issue will eventually plague Canadian schools...foreign students will simply pay more directly for tuition even though taxpayers are still the core source of funds. For private universities, no one should care..they should select students from wherever t…

Like many things, it's not that quite simple. I would argue that in some ways the charter between the state and the university was broken when the state of California drastically cut funding during the Great Recession and didn't restore it once the budget stabilized. How can California residents consider it a state resource when its supported primarily by out-of-state/international students paying sticker price and i…

In 1977, education was 27% of the California State budget. In 2008, education was 37% of the California State budget, it is now 42%. And the absolute size of the budget itself is rising. So in fact funding is increasing as a percentage of the budget and in absolute scales.

The only real recent drop was 2007-2008. There is plenty of money available to run UC prudently as a resource for residents...indeed, more than ever before.

Downvote all you want, these are UCs own numbers so they are true regardless of your opinion or angst.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#13

Post by jacobolus »

iainmerrick wrote: post #11
junkscience2017 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, foreign students are keeping UC corrupt. UC has been plagued by scandal after scandal, horrendous waste, graft, patronage...etc etc The UC system needs more oversight, not more funny money. Cal had enough money to build a gorgeous football stadium. They have enough money to fund the Chancellor's alleged slush fund. California residents have an extremely high tax burden. They are doing their part. UC needs to be c…

You make it sound like foreign students are stealing resources from the US. To the contrary, they pay a lot for the privilege of studying, and they're likely to try to immigrate later -- and even if you're anti-immigration, it's madness to be against young, educated, skilled immigrants who've experienced your country at an impressionable age.

another neutral/non-normative comment retracted

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#14

Post by junkscience2017 »

iainmerrick wrote: post #11
junkscience2017 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, foreign students are keeping UC corrupt. UC has been plagued by scandal after scandal, horrendous waste, graft, patronage...etc etc The UC system needs more oversight, not more funny money. Cal had enough money to build a gorgeous football stadium. They have enough money to fund the Chancellor's alleged slush fund. California residents have an extremely high tax burden. They are doing their part. UC needs to be c…

You make it sound like foreign students are stealing resources from the US. To the contrary, they pay a lot for the privilege of studying, and they're likely to try to immigrate later -- and even if you're anti-immigration, it's madness to be against young, educated, skilled immigrants who've experienced your country at an impressionable age.

The UC system was created to serve residents of the State. These are publicly funded institutions. They are here to serve the taxpaying public. Private schools exist to serve aspirational foreign students.

If residents feel the system does not serve them, they will defund it, and everyone will be worse off. We have these things called Propositions, and they tend to elicit emotional responses. Most California residents are probably beginning to have a negative impression of UC...most of the news from UC is graft, corruption, etc

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#15

Post by megaman22 »

junkscience2017 wrote: post #12
sbuccini wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many things, it's not that quite simple. I would argue that in some ways the charter between the state and the university was broken when the state of California drastically cut funding during the Great Recession and didn't restore it once the budget stabilized. How can California residents consider it a state resource when its supported primarily by out-of-state/international students paying sticker price and i…

In 1977, education was 27% of the California State budget. In 2008, education was 37% of the California State budget, it is now 42%. And the absolute size of the budget itself is rising. So in fact funding is increasing as a percentage of the budget and in absolute scales. The only real recent drop was 2007-2008. There is plenty of money available to run UC prudently as a resource for residents...indeed, more than ev…

California really needs to bail on Proposition 13...

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#16

Post by brohoolio »

Trump is going to ruin the American economy.

Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university.

What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that manufacture knowledge, innovation and the future.

Just look at self driving cars. Much of the tech and the talent came from various universities.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#17

Post by gervase »

brohoolio wrote: post #16

Trump is going to ruin the American economy. Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university. What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that man…

I absolutely believe that this is recognized, and is considered by some to be the precise point of this assault. A poorly-educated workforce drives down wages, speeds automation of low-skill jobs, decreases social mobility, and makes for a more predictable and easily-manipulated electorate. The few remaining high-skill, high-pay jobs can be filled by those who can afford to foot the entire bill for 12-18 years of private education.

It is not seen as a "ruination" of the economy, merely a continuation of existing policies designed to "reshape" the economy into a less-equitable form. It only seems like ruin to the majority on the wrong side of those changes. I believe someone else on HN referred to these changes are "corporate feudalism", which I think is apt.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#19

Post by maoistinquisitr »

petilon wrote: post #10

This is bad news. People like Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google, Elon Musk, founder of Tesla and SpaceX, not to mention CEOs of Google, Microsoft and Adobe all came to the US as students. Without the immigration of the brightest on the planet, the US will, over time, lose its edge.

Probably the opposite. American students with options are deliberately avoiding the fields the foreign students crowd because of the wage and working conditions suppression the added competition produces. Deliberately discouraging the huge numbers of foreign students will help better cultivate greater American talent.

A talent pool of 320 million people is plenty. We don't need to scour the globe.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#20

Post by saboot »

jacobolus wrote: post #13
iainmerrick wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like foreign students are stealing resources from the US. To the contrary, they pay a lot for the privilege of studying, and they're likely to try to immigrate later -- and even if you're anti-immigration, it's madness to be against young, educated, skilled immigrants who've experienced your country at an impressionable age.

another neutral/non-normative comment retracted

> The resentment comes because the UC system has a limited enrollment capacity with competitive admissions, and has a mission of educating residents. So when foreign students take some of those enrollment slots, local students who missed the cut feel cheated.

It's competitive, however it is anything but impossible to get admission into a UC. I'd consider the paths to getting in straight forward.

Either in highschool you are in the top 9% of students statewide, or top 9% in your local highschool if the school participates in the program. You are guaranteed an admission to at least one UC campus.

Didn't make it? Most community colleges offer guaranteed transfer agreements where you complete a requirement of classes and GPA, giving you an automatic admission.

And if this is still too much, there is the entire CSU system to consider.

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