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Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

motherjones.com

11–20 of 56 posts

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#11
post #7

As a small business owner I can tell you we are putting of hiring for pretty much the same reasons mentioned in WSJ. Basically you are paying double to hire an employee.

I don't understand that logic. Yes, if I buy an Apple for 1$, it costs double than if an Apple would just cost 0.50$.

You are paying for employees what they cost, that is, what the market determines. What are you doubling? (The taxes and whatnot are simply part of the total cost).

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#13
post #2

Editorialized submission headline for a highly editorialized piece. Regardless of the issues at hand, no thanks.

Definitely the worst article to ever hit the #1 spot on HN. It looks like yesterday's WSJ editorial must have hit a raw nerve with a lot of HNers, and this makes them feel better. I'm okay with quality HN articles about politics. It's just a shame that the top spot on HN is being reduced to this sort of cheap partisan bickering. I hope HN does not become yet another MotherJones/MSNBC or WSJ/FoxNews.

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#14
post #4

The original WSJ article struck me as disingenuous, but this article seems to just go the ad hominem route.

I've always lived by the rule "if you think someone's wrong based on who they are and not what they said than your argument is too weak to present to others".

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#15
post #7

As a small business owner I can tell you we are putting of hiring for pretty much the same reasons mentioned in WSJ. Basically you are paying double to hire an employee.

I think the author was trying to point out that this is nothing new and he feels the op-ed author was only raising this issue for political reasons. I have to admit that the wsj could have mention some of the op-ed author's background.

As for the point about small business not hiring due to extra costs. I'm sure it's true but this isn't something that was put in place in the last 2 years. This was true in all the recessions and booms we've had sine world war 2 and FDR if not before.

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#16
post #4

The original WSJ article struck me as disingenuous, but this article seems to just go the ad hominem route.

While ad hominem is usually bad, I don't see the problem with using it in response to anecdotal evidence. If your argument is "I, personally, can't run my business while paying employees an average wage!", then "your business was spiraling downwards while before the downturn and well before healthcare reform and wage bumps" seems to be a decent response.

Similarly, knowing someone's background is pretty crucial for an op-ed. If the piece is being sold as "I'm a typical businessman, and Obama's policies are keeping me from hiring people", then it's important to know if the businessman in question is typical, or if he's politically connected.

Edit: Typo'd "solid" for "sold".

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#17
post #11
post #7

As a small business owner I can tell you we are putting of hiring for pretty much the same reasons mentioned in WSJ. Basically you are paying double to hire an employee.

I don't understand that logic. Yes, if I buy an Apple for 1$, it costs double than if an Apple would just cost 0.50$. You are paying for employees what they cost, that is, what the market determines. What are you doubling? (The taxes and whatnot are simply part of the total cost).

The logic is that taxes and other fees are pushing the cost of hiring people over what he's willing to pay. To use your example imagine you only have $1 to your name and you can get by without the Apple. At which point you don't buy the Apple where as if it was $.50 you might buy the Apple because it wouldn't take all your money.

I'm not saying his logic is correct but it's not hard to understand

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#18
post #2

Editorialized submission headline for a highly editorialized piece. Regardless of the issues at hand, no thanks.

Definitely the worst article to ever hit the #1 spot on HN. It looks like yesterday's WSJ editorial must have hit a raw nerve with a lot of HNers, and this makes them feel better. I'm okay with quality HN articles about politics. It's just a shame that the top spot on HN is being reduced to this sort of cheap partisan bickering. I hope HN does not become yet another MotherJones/MSNBC or WSJ/FoxNews.

that's what put me off Digg. But I fully understand that HN will have a bias towards more libertarian views. I really don't think a site dedicated to entrepreneurs and hackers will go the MotherJones/MSNBC way and Fox News hardly has any article with substance online.

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#19
post #7

As a small business owner I can tell you we are putting of hiring for pretty much the same reasons mentioned in WSJ. Basically you are paying double to hire an employee.

But what's the argument? That there are taxes or overhead? The truth is that you're not hiring for charity in the first place. So if the true cost (burdened cost) of a new employee doesn't make you more than enough money to cover that, don't hire. Just because the cost of an employee is not the "sticker" price, and is somehow more complicated, doesn't mean that you're being punished to hire people.

Just a couple of notes for context:

1) On the first day/week/month, the employee is probably not going to contribute much, and in general you are taking a risk. The lower the sticker price on that risk, the more people are likely to take it.

2) If your business is making 250K and spending 240K on employing 4 employees @ 60K each and you want to stay net positive, you need to wait until you reach 300K before you hire the next person[1]. So there are these gaps in ramping up a business which can only be overcome with growth. When salaries are lower, these gaps are smaller. Looking at the broader labor market and assuming growth, lower taxes would mean smaller gaps and potentially less unemployment.

[1] Note that because of their opportunity costs, its harder to hire professionals for part-time.

Re: Re: yesterday's "Why I'm not hiring" WSJ op-ed and why it was poop

#20
While I agree his business is doing lousy and thats a huge reason why he cannot hire more, his point still rock solid.

The government takes way to much for each employee hired. 33%! The author would realize this is a HUGE problem for employers, but I forget he is only a political blogger.

Thus when you hire 3 and a tax rate of 33% + 33% + 33%, you are really paying for 4 people and getting 3. That makes it hard to hire more employees.

Then comes the health care, which drives this 33% even higher. As the wsj author states

"Every year, we negotiate a renewal to our health coverage. This year, our provider demanded a 28% increase in premiums—for a lesser plan. This is in part a tax increase that the federal government has co-opted insurance providers to collect. We had never faced an increase anywhere near this large; in each of the last two years, the increase was under 10%."

28% is a HUGE increase..

Don't turn this into a political "I must defend/attack obama/bush" article. He stated everything with facts to defend why. 33% per employee and rising quickly in just a years time is a huge reason not to hire someone new.

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