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Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

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Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#11
post #5

The day Uber goes public there will be a mass exodus of employees waiting for years to leave the company. I wonder if Uber will stay private permanently to prevent this?

Do you know anyone that works there? Is the engineering culture messed up or something?

There's always an exodus after a liquidity event.

As far as the culture goes, from what I understand it's very backstabby and culty. Basically, Travis set the culture, and it permeates the company.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#12
post #8
post #5

The day Uber goes public there will be a mass exodus of employees waiting for years to leave the company. I wonder if Uber will stay private permanently to prevent this?

There is a year lockout of Uber employees after an IPO. Source: ex Uber employee.

How's the eng culture?

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#13

Yet another reason why taking startup stock sucks. Oh? You managed to actually get stock in a startup that seems to be worth something? And you didn't get diluted to a pittance? And the board / founders didn't try to fire you or ask you to give stock back to the pool? Lucky you, you're one of the 1% of the 1%. Now stay there until the company sells or goes public. Wait -- they got bought? Congratulations, you just wo…

The moment for me when I realized that options were bullshit was when I got a story about how “we wanted to give you a bigger raise but it’s not in the budget, so here’s $3k less and $3k worth of options”

As if options had a value.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#14
Uber is specifically and wilfully shitty when it comes to employees’ stock. Large investors have always been able to sell, in part because they hold their shares in LLCs. Smaller investors, however, get blocked.

When the price started crashing, the big guys got out. The little guys remain locked inside. Something similar happened at Palantir. When a big little guy sued, things changed [1].

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-18/at-peter-...

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is neither legal nor securities advice.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#15
This -- "One of those former employees paid about $100,000 to exercise more than 20,000 incentive stock options (ISOs), plus a tax bill of over $200,000. The other paid about $70,000 to exercise about 5,000 ISOs, and then about $160,000 in taxes. Both former employees took out loans from family members to make the payments, and requested anonymity to discuss their personal financial situations."

Is how many many Silicon Valley horror stories begin. In the dot.com days it was "How working for a startup bankrupted me, and ruined my relationships." All because some situation forced a person to make the bet of whether or not their illiquid asset (stock in a private company) would ever become liquid. And that when it did, selling it would be more valuable than what you paid for it.

Clearly not everyone is as out there as the person mentioned in the article is, although I knew many people who had anywhere from $5K - $50K at risk because they had exercised and were holding. I had stock losses from the dot com implosion that I wrote off for over 10 years (at $3,000 a year) and it would have gone on for the rest of my life if we hadn't had a bit of long term gains to offset it later.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a year lockout of Uber employees after an IPO. Source: ex Uber employee.

If you quit during that time can you sell?

I think the same rules apply. You can exercise but you'll owe taxes and can't sell any shares to cover the tax.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#17
Why is this even news? This is the case for pretty much every privately-held company in the valley, because the tax law dictates that [1]. When Pinterest changed their exercise window from 90 days to 7 years, it was big news [2]. When you leave a privately-held company, you have to convert your stock options to stocks to hold onto them, and then AMT kicks in and taxes you on the spread and that often hurt a lot. But in the case of these employees mentioned in the article, they are guaranteed to make a huge profit in the tender offer.

Next up: evil companies in Silicon Valley invalidate employees' RSU when they leave the company.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9254299 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9253497

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#18
post #5

The day Uber goes public there will be a mass exodus of employees waiting for years to leave the company. I wonder if Uber will stay private permanently to prevent this?

AFAIK Most employees have RSUs now, which don't have these issues related to exercising options.

As the article mentioned, Dara has expressed that he would like to take the company public in a couple of years.

Not sure what his pay structure looks like, but assuming it includes equity, I would imagine it would be in his interest to go public

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a year lockout of Uber employees after an IPO. Source: ex Uber employee.

How's the eng culture?

They hired too many, too fast. When I was there, the whole thing was chaos. Instead of using a cloud provider, they are building basic infrastructure because engineers have to do something.

Beyond the obvious HR issues that Susan Fowler exposed, it was a bad place to work for almost any engineer. I would stay far away if you get an offer there.

Re: Former Uber employees have gone into debt to exercise options they can’t sell

#20
Have seen this far too often. I was at a successful UK based startup very early on, so my strike price was pennies. Those who joined a year or two later were looking at strike prices in excess of £30 with hundreds shares. Recent investment rounds put the share price at around £120, but as always current employees can't sell until a full sale or IPO.

The result? A swell of employees who want to leave/move on but can't afford to buy their shares and leave. It's lead to a number of people just hanging around, even when their enthusiasm and passion is waining.

Not what options are designed for!

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