Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 90 posts

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#11

Post by notzorbo3 »

SapphireSun wrote: post #7
notzorbo3 wrote: post #5

I still haven't found an solution anywhere for the following problem: Living (not just housing, but everything) expenses are a lot less for dual, or even triple, income households than for single people. So there's going to be a lot less pressure on dual income households to work beyond their basic income. Logically, this would put double (or even triple) the additional pressure on single income households. Under UBI…

I think this question is only answerable with specific numbers. If UBI = $1 / person, then the difference in pressure is small. Also, you presume that people only work for money. I think with UBI, you'd see a revitalization of community oriented, but low profit pursuits.

> If UBI = $1 / person, then the difference in pressure is small.

The pressure might be small, but it's still there. The €1 still has to come from somewhere.

> Also, you presume that people only work for money. I think with UBI, you'd see a revitalization of community oriented, but low profit pursuits.

How are low-profit pursuits going to pay for everybody's UBI? You can't heavily tax low-profit pursuits.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#12

Post by craigkilgo »

dmm wrote: post #4
bryanlarsen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. As long as you are paying for UBI through taxes rather than by printing money, there shouldn't be any overall inflation. Certainly there will be price adjustments: the prices of some things will go up while others will go down. But that definitely wont "offset any benefit".

> Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. Is it? The US monetary base has more than tripled since 2008 but inflation since then is only 14.6%. For comparison between 1999 and 2008, the us monetary base increased by about a third and inflation between those years was around 29%.

Inflation being a monetary phenomenon is the technical definition of inflation. When you mention the 14% number, that is based on market price for basket of goods which is not technically inflation (under the definition used by economists, not the definition used by journalists).

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#13

Post by delecti »

notzorbo3 wrote: post #11
SapphireSun wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this question is only answerable with specific numbers. If UBI = $1 / person, then the difference in pressure is small. Also, you presume that people only work for money. I think with UBI, you'd see a revitalization of community oriented, but low profit pursuits.

> If UBI = $1 / person, then the difference in pressure is small. The pressure might be small, but it's still there. The €1 still has to come from somewhere. > Also, you presume that people only work for money. I think with UBI, you'd see a revitalization of community oriented, but low profit pursuits. How are low-profit pursuits going to pay for everybody's UBI? You can't heavily tax low-profit pursuits.

The premise of UBI is that not everybody needs to work. It's not that everybody will move towards low-profit pursuits it's that otherwise unemployed people will. The taxes will come from the same places they are expected to: automation increasingly taking over the creation of most of the wealth in society.

We'll see if it works in practice, but that's the theory.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#14

Post by exabrial »

First line: "What if the state covered the cost of living?"

Who is paying for the income? It's not "The state". It's everyone else, by taxation. You're telling people you have a right to seize their earnings for their labor. You're literally taking someone else's money, and giving it to someone else. UBI is nothing but people ignoring the moral problems of seizing assets and saying "The end justifies the means."

If a billionaire philanthropist wants to sponsor UBI voluntarily, that's a different matter. Or if you want to donate to a charity that funds UBI, please do. It'll be an interesting economic experiment. But taking assets from people and giving them to another person is wrong, no matter how good the outcome is.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#15

Post by PatientTrades »

Universal Basic Income is necessary for humanity to reach to higher goals in their evolution. Wasting 8-10 hours of the day doing a job that robots could do much better is not the best use of human intelligence. Imagine the discoveries and inventions that would happen if humans could devote all of their time to their passion. The benefits drastically outweigh the minuscule downsides

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#16

Post by dmm »

craigkilgo wrote: post #12
dmm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. Is it? The US monetary base has more than tripled since 2008 but inflation since then is only 14.6%. For comparison between 1999 and 2008, the us monetary base increased by about a third and inflation between those years was around 29%.

Inflation being a monetary phenomenon is the technical definition of inflation. When you mention the 14% number, that is based on market price for basket of goods which is not technically inflation (under the definition used by economists, not the definition used by journalists).

So if bought inflation-protected securities from the us treasury, they would have paid >300% from 2008 to now? Or does the us treasury use the journalist definition of inflation?

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#17

Post by notzorbo3 »

dmm wrote: post #8
notzorbo3 wrote: post #5

I still haven't found an solution anywhere for the following problem: Living (not just housing, but everything) expenses are a lot less for dual, or even triple, income households than for single people. So there's going to be a lot less pressure on dual income households to work beyond their basic income. Logically, this would put double (or even triple) the additional pressure on single income households. Under UBI…

UBI encourages marriage whereas traditional social programs discourage it. What's the problem?

Traditional social programs are a safety net for single people like those going through divorce and such. Under UBI, it just puts a lot more pressure on those people, while at the same time alleviating the pressure on multi-income households. It's might force people to stay together in unhappy marriages, etc. I see that as a problem.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#18

Post by peapicker »

dmm wrote: post #8
notzorbo3 wrote: post #5

I still haven't found an solution anywhere for the following problem: Living (not just housing, but everything) expenses are a lot less for dual, or even triple, income households than for single people. So there's going to be a lot less pressure on dual income households to work beyond their basic income. Logically, this would put double (or even triple) the additional pressure on single income households. Under UBI…

UBI encourages marriage whereas traditional social programs discourage it. What's the problem?

Encourages co-habitation anyway.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#19

Post by ajross »

notzorbo3 wrote: post #5

I still haven't found an solution anywhere for the following problem: Living (not just housing, but everything) expenses are a lot less for dual, or even triple, income households than for single people. So there's going to be a lot less pressure on dual income households to work beyond their basic income. Logically, this would put double (or even triple) the additional pressure on single income households. Under UBI…

That's no different than it is now. Single family homes are incentivized to work more and thus contribute a disproportionate share of taxes. It doesn't matter what you spend those taxes on.

Then again, multifamily housing has less access to the mortgage interest deduction, which cuts the other way.

Basically, this is the deal we've already decided on in our society, and AFAICS it hasn't caused problems.

Post reply on HN