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“I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

archive.oreilly.com

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Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#11

Post by rtpg »

realityking wrote: post #5

The question I’d pose to the author is, what would he think of a book using examples he disagrees with? Let’s say for advocating for arming every American or against gay marriage. The vast majority arguing like the author are not ok with this - it’s only good if the content fits their world view.

Yeah, this is a good point.

Sure, you can put the examples you want in your book. I think it's your own form of personal expression, and maybe you can move hearts and souls in this way.

But you have to own it. Some people might not buy your stuff. Others will go out of their way to buy your stuff. Own the consequences to your speech.

If a white nationalist released a book in the same way... I wouldn't buy it. They might whine about me not wanting to listen to their opinion. And I don't! I would probably buy the article's author's book. But there's no fallacy there.

People want to buy and read what they want to buy and read.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#12

Post by ianai »

ericand wrote: post #3
coreyp_1 wrote: post #2

I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students, and they are, quite literally, paying me for my knowledge and experience about that subject, not for me to distract everyone with my personal opinions about unrelated issues. I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

I'm with you. I find these examples distracting if not annoying.

It’s just a book. He’s taken it a direction that decreases his audience. It sounds like he’s probably published and sold enough copy to be able to be picky about readership. You’re welcome to not purchase this material. He’s also welcome to write and publish it.

Otherwise, I think he could have tried to depolarize his examples or take them a more light/comedic direction. Maybe a “murder count” to classification switch clause with a silly Megadeth reference. If it fits the criteria, then put in the wc procedure, etc. there’s always a way to spice up examples without being outright biased.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#13

Post by chickenfries »

realityking wrote: post #5

The question I’d pose to the author is, what would he think of a book using examples he disagrees with? Let’s say for advocating for arming every American or against gay marriage. The vast majority arguing like the author are not ok with this - it’s only good if the content fits their world view.

> The vast majority arguing like the author are not ok with this

Your critique isn't very strong when it hinges on supposing something that is not supported by the text, merely by hyperbolic "whatabouts" that you assume the answer you wan't to critique. You're putting the author in a box rather than engaging with the words that they wrote.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#14

Post by Retra »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #2

I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students, and they are, quite literally, paying me for my knowledge and experience about that subject, not for me to distract everyone with my personal opinions about unrelated issues. I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

You don't know what your students are paying you for. Maybe it's just a piece of paper. Maybe it's specialized knowledge. Or to fulfill a cultural obligation. Maybe it's to babysit them while the find a spouse. Or Maybe it is for a political awakening. They could be paying to to be challenged.

I mean, just because I show up at the cash register and pay for a screwdriver doesn't mean you get to dictate that I obviously must be out to drive some screws. That's a very one-dimensional and frankly impotent worldview.

How the shit is democracy supposed to work when politics is a taboo subject anyhow.

>I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

So I don't know what your point is supposed to be here... That somehow your students' ignorance of your beliefs justifies an assertion that they should be ignorant of your beliefs?

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#15

Post by 59nadir »

I thought the examples sounded more interesting than your usual ones and honestly I would prefer those to whatever user login example you see usually. There are probably several that I don't agree with politically, but who cares? It's still a technical book and if people like the author's previous work I don't see why the quality of it would have changed.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#16

Post by chickenfries »

happyrock wrote: post #6

I realize this is from 2000 but why would anyone think this person's trite and wholly conventional political opinions are in any way interesting or noteworthy? Strange psychology this guy has, like he's just trying to rattle off as many "controversial" "issues" as he can name, with no regard for his readership... the whole thing comes across as juvenile and narcissistic.

Juvenile, sure. No more juvenile than the other crap people put in examples. I mean really, programmers are notoriously juvenile, what's new? Narcissistic? Not so much.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#18

Post by ianai »

happyrock wrote: post #6

I realize this is from 2000 but why would anyone think this person's trite and wholly conventional political opinions are in any way interesting or noteworthy? Strange psychology this guy has, like he's just trying to rattle off as many "controversial" "issues" as he can name, with no regard for his readership... the whole thing comes across as juvenile and narcissistic.

17 years ago. It’s interesting how much things have changed and how much they haven’t. This was written a year before 9/11, for instance.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#20

Post by whack »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #2

I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students, and they are, quite literally, paying me for my knowledge and experience about that subject, not for me to distract everyone with my personal opinions about unrelated issues. I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

Different people write books for very different reasons, with very different styles.

Some want to maximize their profits. Some want to be formal, and 100% focused on the core-topic. Some want to please every single potential reader. And some see it as an avenue for self-expression and having some "fun" on the side.

The author probably knows that his writing style is going to turn off a number of potential readers, which in turn is going to reduce the amount of money he can make. Clearly he has decided that he's ok with this. He has even gone out of his way to warn readers, so I don't think anyone is justified in complaining. He's entitled to write books in any style he finds fulfilling, just as everyone's entitled to boycott his books if they don't like it.

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