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A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#11

Post by jacobush »

mrarjen wrote: post #10
inconv wrote: post #4

It is a well known fact that ISIS was instructed by SAS and American special forces. They have also been reported that ISIS commanders where airlifted by American helicopters. So much about fighting terrorism. United States along with Britain and other European nations have been become the epiphany of hypocrisy( remember the bombing of Libya where British and French were giving a hand to the Americans?). These facts…

Only sources on this I can find is that in a way the US created ISIS by bombing a whole lot of civilians in the region and thus fueling an uprising. Nothing concrete regarding the SAS or Special Forces training them.

Not exactly, but instead along these lines: The US civil administrator of Iraq fired 400 000 Army men, majority sunni. Now, you have 400 000 families with no food on the table.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer#Disbanding_the_Ira...

Cue 15 years of chaos and strife, and the ISIS has fertile ground to sow their seeds of hatred in. A significant fraction of these disgruntled 400 000 army men apparently decided to lend their services to ISIS.

Edit:

to voiceless down voters - of course your standpoint is that doing the above was of no consequence, or maybe even helped delay the creation of ISIS? So absurd...

Edit2:

Se child comment.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#12

Post by alain_gilbert »

I cannot find any specific date on this article.

I wonder if it is the same convoy. http://www.bestgore.com/murder/video-isis-convoy-safe-evacua...

I would say no since the article says:

    No flags or banners would be allowed to be flown from the convoy as it left the city, the deal stipulated
Otherwise, this kind of escape date from june 13, 2017.

Edit: The article says "But when he and his fellow drivers assembled their convoy early on 12 October"

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#13

Post by asfbaofbaso »

inconv wrote: post #4

It is a well known fact that ISIS was instructed by SAS and American special forces. They have also been reported that ISIS commanders where airlifted by American helicopters. So much about fighting terrorism. United States along with Britain and other European nations have been become the epiphany of hypocrisy( remember the bombing of Libya where British and French were giving a hand to the Americans?). These facts…

I haven't heard this claim before but here's more solid stuff:

- How the US disbanding the Iraqi Army created the environment for ISIS to form. http://time.com/3900753/isis-iraq-syria-army-united-states-m...

- The US is always giving arms and training to "moderate" groups throughout the middle east. It's so frequent that without a doubt, I can predict that some of those groups were later acquired by ISIS or had members trained by the US desert for ISIS. This kind of thing happens so frequently that the main conclusion you can draw, along with the rest of the contextual evidence that is too lengthy to go into detail here relating to drone strikes, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc is that the US just does not give a fuck about supporting or creating more terror groups in the name of dominating strategic geopolitical territories.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#14

Post by frandroid »

Basically, either you let ISIS escape, or you completely flatten the city to get rid of them. I mean considering the way Raqqa looks now, I'm not sure it was effective in preventing much destruction, but if you have an opportunity to save a large city, you try to.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#15

Post by arlk »

alain_gilbert wrote: post #12

I cannot find any specific date on this article. I wonder if it is the same convoy. http://www.bestgore.com/murder/video-isis-convoy-safe-evacua... I would say no since the article says: No flags or banners would be allowed to be flown from the convoy as it left the city, the deal stipulated Otherwise, this kind of escape date from june 13, 2017. Edit: The article says "But when he and his fellow drivers assembled th…

This is an old video from Deir Al-Zoor and it says in Arabic 'Caliphate army mobilizing to assist Deir Al-zoor'. Not from Raqqa. Citing Al-Masdar propaganda website should be enough to know how credible is this.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#16

Post by dba7dba »

jacobush wrote: post #11
mrarjen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only sources on this I can find is that in a way the US created ISIS by bombing a whole lot of civilians in the region and thus fueling an uprising. Nothing concrete regarding the SAS or Special Forces training them.

Not exactly, but instead along these lines: The US civil administrator of Iraq fired 400 000 Army men, majority sunni. Now, you have 400 000 families with no food on the table. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer#Disbanding_the_Ira... Cue 15 years of chaos and strife, and the ISIS has fertile ground to sow their seeds of hatred in. A significant fraction of these disgruntled 400 000 army men apparently decided…

I always wanted to know who made the idiotic decision to disband the ENTIRE Iraqi army. Was it from the white house or someone in Iraq like P. Beemer?

A lot of the ills of Iraq after Saddam fell was due to disbanding of the army. Imho.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#17

Post by alain_gilbert »

arlk wrote: post #15
alain_gilbert wrote: post #12

I cannot find any specific date on this article. I wonder if it is the same convoy. http://www.bestgore.com/murder/video-isis-convoy-safe-evacua... I would say no since the article says: No flags or banners would be allowed to be flown from the convoy as it left the city, the deal stipulated Otherwise, this kind of escape date from june 13, 2017. Edit: The article says "But when he and his fellow drivers assembled th…

This is an old video from Deir Al-Zoor and it says in Arabic 'Caliphate army mobilizing to assist Deir Al-zoor'. Not from Raqqa. Citing Al-Masdar propaganda website should be enough to know how credible is this.

I'm not very knowledgeable about all of this.

But looking at the map, it seems like Deir Al-zoor is more or less where they said the convoy went. (Sections of convoy later spotted here)

Saying "mobilizing to assist Deir Al-zoor" sounds better (on a IS point of view) than "evacuating Raqqah".

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#18

Post by jacobush »

dba7dba wrote: post #16
jacobush wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly, but instead along these lines: The US civil administrator of Iraq fired 400 000 Army men, majority sunni. Now, you have 400 000 families with no food on the table. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer#Disbanding_the_Ira... Cue 15 years of chaos and strife, and the ISIS has fertile ground to sow their seeds of hatred in. A significant fraction of these disgruntled 400 000 army men apparently decided…

I always wanted to know who made the idiotic decision to disband the ENTIRE Iraqi army. Was it from the white house or someone in Iraq like P. Beemer? A lot of the ills of Iraq after Saddam fell was due to disbanding of the army. Imho.

”On May 23, 2003, Bremer issued Order Number 2, in effect dissolving the entire former Iraqi army[40] and putting 400,000 former Iraqi soldiers out of work.”

As for who made him do it, I don’t know. But as you said, it was idiotic. And that’s worse than evil. Dietrich Bonhoeffer would agree with me.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#19

Post by icebraining »

jacobush wrote: post #11
mrarjen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only sources on this I can find is that in a way the US created ISIS by bombing a whole lot of civilians in the region and thus fueling an uprising. Nothing concrete regarding the SAS or Special Forces training them.

Not exactly, but instead along these lines: The US civil administrator of Iraq fired 400 000 Army men, majority sunni. Now, you have 400 000 families with no food on the table. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer#Disbanding_the_Ira... Cue 15 years of chaos and strife, and the ISIS has fertile ground to sow their seeds of hatred in. A significant fraction of these disgruntled 400 000 army men apparently decided…

I think the downvotes come from the perceived motte-and-bailey argument. Your point that disbanding the US army is likely to have decisively contributed to the creation of ISIS is good, but it's a far cry from the claim that the US literally airlifted ISIS commanders, so in this context it's not appropriate.

Re: A deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa

#20

Post by JohnStrange »

frandroid wrote: post #14

Basically, either you let ISIS escape, or you completely flatten the city to get rid of them. I mean considering the way Raqqa looks now, I'm not sure it was effective in preventing much destruction, but if you have an opportunity to save a large city, you try to.

Seconded. This sounds like a reasonable deal that probably prevented a lot of civilian deaths of people who could have been caught in the crossfire.
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