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Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

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Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#11

Post by robotresearcher »

nether wrote: post #10
robotresearcher wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leonardo da Vinci, notable designer, and many other sophisticated people considered flapping wing aircraft. It’s easy to dismiss it as simplistic hundreds of years later once practical solutions already exist.

No, flapping wing aircraft simply are less efficent for size scales that can carry a person. That's why the larger a bird's wingspan, the less frequently they flap, such that condors, storks etc. are basically fixed wing gliders. We in the artificial world do have our own local optima with quad copter drones. Flapping here would be more efficient. Consider seagulls that dive and change direction instantly, and can re…

What do you mean 'no'? It's an empirical fact that very talented designers considered flapping wing flying machines, before they had the information that we have now. They were not 'overly simplistic' except in deep hindsight.

Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#12

Post by laretluval »

robotresearcher wrote: post #11
nether wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, flapping wing aircraft simply are less efficent for size scales that can carry a person. That's why the larger a bird's wingspan, the less frequently they flap, such that condors, storks etc. are basically fixed wing gliders. We in the artificial world do have our own local optima with quad copter drones. Flapping here would be more efficient. Consider seagulls that dive and change direction instantly, and can re…

What do you mean 'no'? It's an empirical fact that very talented designers considered flapping wing flying machines, before they had the information that we have now. They were not 'overly simplistic' except in deep hindsight.

We aren't done designing flying machines. Maybe it will turn out that when we have sophisticated enough control mechanisms and materials, flapping will turn out to be the way to go after all.

Of course natural evolution has found only local minima in the fitness landscape, but as a designer it's been running its algorithm a lot longer than humans have. Its local minima may well be better than ours, and so worth trying to imitate.

Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#13

Post by robotresearcher »

laretluval wrote: post #12
robotresearcher wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean 'no'? It's an empirical fact that very talented designers considered flapping wing flying machines, before they had the information that we have now. They were not 'overly simplistic' except in deep hindsight.

We aren't done designing flying machines. Maybe it will turn out that when we have sophisticated enough control mechanisms and materials, flapping will turn out to be the way to go after all. Of course natural evolution has found only local minima in the fitness landscape, but as a designer it's been running its algorithm a lot longer than humans have. Its local minima may well be better than ours, and so worth tryin…

Refer to the grandparent post as to why large flapping machines are unlikely.

This thread is so weird.

Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#14

Post by mygo »

binarytransform wrote: post #5

Yeah nature got us here, but "here" is a local optimum based on evolutionary selection forces. If you were to design things based on biomimicry rather than first principles, planes would flap their wings, cars would gallop, and computer vision sensors would only perceive visible light. These people are building solutions rather than solving the problem.

You seem to misunderstand what biomimicry even is. It’s about identifying root problems and seeing how nature has already solved the same problems we’re trying to solve. The whole concept of first principles is there. Remember when Speedo invented new swimsuits that led to swimmers breaking world records left and right? That was due to biomimicry. Because sharks are fast and shark skin is not smooth under the microscope but instead has lots of tiny protrusions that create micro-turbulence along the surface that leads to less overall drag. And then creating a similar material for swimsuits. That is biomimicry. Not making freaking airplane wings flap to achieve lift. But instead, discovering that the way a hummingbird sweeps it’s wings back and forth creates an area of lower pressure above the wing that virtually sucks the wing up. Interestingly enough airplane wings are shaped in such a way that the wind travels faster above the wing than below the wing, creating a similar pressure difference and achieving lift.

Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#16

Post by ggm »

Many of these solutions are about energy minimization. Sometimes its the lifetime energy. Sometimes, its the energy of creation/instantiation. If you start from a bundle of cells you don't have the option to yank a mecanno box of new parts into the system ready-made: you have to use cellular generative methods, to construct largely fluid and jelly filled sacs, which then accrete things, or form surfaces, and you badly want to minimize the energy cost of doing that, within the constraints of the physical system you are in.

Whales could be half a mile long and razor. Thin. or globular. They went somewhere inbetween for reasons.

Thats what I think, anyway. I base this on (mis) readings of D'Arcy Thompson. 1917.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Growth_and_Form

Re: Biomimicry: How Designers Are Learning from the Natural World

#17

Post by Samahaly »

I must say, as I enjoy reading about biomimicry. Imitating the environment enhances creativity and brings out great architectural designs if it's well done! These are some interesting information about biomimicry too: https://www.arch2o.com/biomimicry-enhances-architecture/
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