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Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#11

Post by kanzure »

Here's a transcript of a recent talk given by Josiah Zayner: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-wit...

[20:40] “If you look at Step 3 - which is, uh, you know, I like steps and lists, they are awesome - uhm, there are actually websites out there that have this infrastructure completely built. You can go in, type in the name of a gene. Not even the name, you could type in the name you think a gene should be named, and what it will do is predict the best guide RNAs, the best 20 bases, to use, so that Cas9 enzyme can cut in your genome in this exact place."

"Literally, you don’t have to do anything, right? You have to go in, type in the name of a gene, and press enter, and you could modify yourself with CRISPR. Right? That’s what this DNA basically is. This DNA, if you think about, took me about 5 minutes to make. Actually, it happened so fast, I had to go back and verify it a couple of times. I didn’t think I could create DNA that could modify my own genetics with CRISPR in 5 minutes. Now, if that doesn’t blow your mind, I, I really don’t know what does. And, the next question comes down to, 'What’s holding us back; what’s stopping us?' And I dunno, to me, I, I don’t really know what’s stopping us, you know? I, I think about it a lot, because, I have this really, you know, bad snaggle-tooth, and I think like what happens if I could change that?"

"No but if you think about, people are born with things that they have no decision over. And then everybody else says, 'Oh, no, fuck you, I'm athletic and 6 feet tall and, you know, good looking, and you just, you just, the genetic lottery - you lost. That's the truth. You lost the genetic lottery and you have to suffer through it.' How does it make sense?"

http://www.the-odin.com/diyhumancrispr

personally i'm down to fund projects like this, so if any of you are interested, get in touch & let's deploy.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#12

Post by bayesian_horse »

LeoJiWoo wrote: post #8

This will really take homebrew beer to the next level. I can't imagine these kits allow modification of anything more than a bacteria,virus, or fungus. I'm no biologist though. Is someone making a black death 2.0 in their garage even possible ?

There's a reason bioterrorism isn't a thing, even though terrorism-minded people could get access to dangerous pathogens like Y. pestis or EBV if they wanted to.

At least in my opinion, it's just too damn hard for them to merit the effort, even compared to a sophisticated bomb. Trying to engineer (and test) a strain, "weaponize" it, takes a lot of space, time and resources.

And then the delivery is also very difficult.. So hard, that even militaries haven't totally figured it out.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#13

Post by bayesian_horse »

devereaux wrote: post #6

Why a moral panic instead of celebrating the achievement? xx years ago, mail-order computer kits allowed absolutely anyone to hack code (and, gasp! illegally copy software or create computer viruses!) yy years ago, mail-order color printers and scanners allowed absolutely anyone to hack paper (and, gasp! forge documents) Is this part of a war against freedom? Then we are inconsistent. We should also lament on how Int…

These DIY Crispr kits aren't even remotely close to mail order computer kits.

At the moment, they are about as sophisticated as sea monkey kits, and less reliable at that.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#14

Post by ben_w »

kanzure wrote: post #11

Here's a transcript of a recent talk given by Josiah Zayner: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-wit... [20:40] “If you look at Step 3 - which is, uh, you know, I like steps and lists, they are awesome - uhm, there are actually websites out there that have this infrastructure completely built. You can go in, type in the name of a gene. Not even the name, you could type in the name you think a gen…

Back in the days of Mac OS classic, there was a tool called ResEdit. You could use it to explore and modify apps. Or the core OS. While it was running.

It warned you this was a bad idea, but I did it anyway. It took ten years before I saw a computer lock up that hard again.

That’s how I see humans DIY hacking their own genome. If you’re lucky you’ll get what you were after. If not, you now have sexuality transmissible lycanthropy which (as a side effect) lobotomies you as your new skull shape was designed by an artist and not a biologist.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#15

Post by crewman »

Fortunately there is difference between creating deadly virus or bacteria and weaponizing it. Effective weaponization requires stabilization. Biwoweapon must survive in the environment and there must good delivery mechanism. Creating epidemic requires optimizing the delivery, contagiousness and symptoms.

It seems that North Korea has remote islands dedicated to bioweapon development and testing. Biosafety level 4 laboratories are must if your researches go to home each night. But if you can do the most dangerous parts in islands where people are in quarantine and have prisoners to experiment with, it's easier. It's impossible to know how well they have weaponized their bioweapons.

Description of North Korea’s BW Program from ROK Parliamentary Audit 2015:

>North Korea has 13 types of biological weapons in the form of agents, and it can cultivate and weap- onize them within ten days. In an emergency, it is likely that the North would prioritize using anthrax which is highly fatal and smallpox which is highly contagious. Special forces, airplanes, and contam- inated carcasses are the potential delivery means. It appears that the North has not developed missile warheads with BW payload.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#16

Post by Gatsky »

ilamont wrote: post #4

Finally, what about the nightmare scenario: Is CRISPR so easy to use that we need to worry about biohackers—either accidentally or intentionally—creating dangerous pathogens? Carroll and others think that the danger of putting CRISPR in the hands of the average person is relatively low. “People have imagined scenarios where scientists could use CRISPR to generate a virulent pathogen, ” he says. “How big is the risk?…

As other people have said, it has been possible to make bioweapons for a long time, but engineered bioterrorism hasn't happened.

There are a few reasons I think. Firstly, there is a cultural disconnect between fundamentalism and science heavy weapons development. In the same way that ISIS is not building gigawatt lasers or rail guns, the groups capable of terrorism don't prioritise research. They are often very atavistic, wanting a return to a less technical, less advanced society.

The second thing is that engineering even the simplest organsim is still hard. If you are trying to build a pandemic virus, you need a fairly elaborate set up to do it and avoid killing yourself first. This is far less accessible than making explosives, or obtaining guns.

The biggest risk is state funded labs in eg North Korea, or the emergence of contract labs willing to do anything for a fee, eg a 'biohacking' equivalent of Hacking Team.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#17

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

api wrote: post #9
ilamont wrote: post #4

Finally, what about the nightmare scenario: Is CRISPR so easy to use that we need to worry about biohackers—either accidentally or intentionally—creating dangerous pathogens? Carroll and others think that the danger of putting CRISPR in the hands of the average person is relatively low. “People have imagined scenarios where scientists could use CRISPR to generate a virulent pathogen, ” he says. “How big is the risk?…

When I was a bio undergrad student I learned once (in discussion with a professor) about a disturbingly simple and effective GMO path to weaponized microbes discovered back in the 70s by some bio-weapons researchers. This was long before CRISPR. Totally ingenious, simple, and absolute nightmare fuel. I will not repeat it here. The ideas are out there but I'm not going to help anyone find it. Suffice to say that I thi…

I've been worrying about this since the late 90s.

It's so easy to create and release a zero-resistance >99% kill rate pandemic nightmare that I absolutely agree. And the power of the Internet makes it trivially easy to research and design that nightmare.

CRISPR is the equivalent of selling megaton nukes on Amazon.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#18

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #12
LeoJiWoo wrote: post #8

This will really take homebrew beer to the next level. I can't imagine these kits allow modification of anything more than a bacteria,virus, or fungus. I'm no biologist though. Is someone making a black death 2.0 in their garage even possible ?

There's a reason bioterrorism isn't a thing, even though terrorism-minded people could get access to dangerous pathogens like Y. pestis or EBV if they wanted to. At least in my opinion, it's just too damn hard for them to merit the effort, even compared to a sophisticated bomb. Trying to engineer (and test) a strain, "weaponize" it, takes a lot of space, time and resources. And then the delivery is also very difficul…

The hard part is protecting your side against the effects.

If you're not worried about protecting a population, pathogen production and delivery becomes rather simpler.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#19

Post by criddell »

devereaux wrote: post #6

Why a moral panic instead of celebrating the achievement? xx years ago, mail-order computer kits allowed absolutely anyone to hack code (and, gasp! illegally copy software or create computer viruses!) yy years ago, mail-order color printers and scanners allowed absolutely anyone to hack paper (and, gasp! forge documents) Is this part of a war against freedom? Then we are inconsistent. We should also lament on how Int…

> Why a moral panic instead of celebrating the achievement?

Maybe they did some A-B testing and found that the story with the moral panic resulted in more ad views than the uplifting version?

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#20

Post by api »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #17
api wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a bio undergrad student I learned once (in discussion with a professor) about a disturbingly simple and effective GMO path to weaponized microbes discovered back in the 70s by some bio-weapons researchers. This was long before CRISPR. Totally ingenious, simple, and absolute nightmare fuel. I will not repeat it here. The ideas are out there but I'm not going to help anyone find it. Suffice to say that I thi…

I've been worrying about this since the late 90s. It's so easy to create and release a zero-resistance >99% kill rate pandemic nightmare that I absolutely agree. And the power of the Internet makes it trivially easy to research and design that nightmare. CRISPR is the equivalent of selling megaton nukes on Amazon.

99% is tough for various evolutionary theoretic reasons, but another bubonic plague is a hell of a lot easier.

These things are more dangerous than nukes. Any technology for creating GMOs should be regulated and licensed for the same reason that we regulate and license fissile material. This should remain true until and unless we can stop killing and hating each other and until a decade goes by without some nut opening fire on a bunch of kids in a church.

That guy can now order a CRISPR kit.

The people who hang out on 4chan /pol and "pray" for ebola to go airborne so it will de-populate Africa can mail order a CRISPR kit. It wouldn't be the dumbass meme-slinging shitlords. It would be that one lurker with a bio Ph.D and a shrine to Adolf Hitler and a collection of books by Julius Evola and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion all full of highlighting and underlining.

"He was just kind of quiet. Seemed nice. Said hi to the neighbors. He spent a lot of time on the Internet and got a lot of FedEx packages. Saw him come and go at night a lot."

"Police say the suspect tested the pathogen on human victims to perfect it. He took his victims mostly from homeless camps or hired prostitutes. A mass grave has been discovered on a remote property owned by the suspect and meticulously catalogued tissue samples have been found in a storage locker..."

"The disease's lethality was increased by the suspect's attempts to make it fatal only to certain ethnic groups as the inclusion of human antigens causes a reaction similar to that experienced by organ transplant recipients..."

"Officials say they can't provide a time-table for how long the quarantine will last. The army is being mobilized to deliver supplies..."

... then a few weeks later just the tone and a scrolling message ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HlP2GHn_Ck

I have children. Ban this stuff right now.

Edit:

I just picked a contemporary motive. There's an endless supply of wills-of-God and causes "that will not be understood now... but history will judge me..."

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